Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

johnraff · 2023-12-20 02:41:41

A future for the i386 architecture

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a … 00003.html

Paul Gevers wrote:

Insofar as they still do, we anticipate that the kernel, d-i and images teams will cease to support i386 in the near future.

(d-i = Debian Installer)

Given our small dev team, supporting BunsenLabs i386 iso installers without backup from Debian might be a non-trivial task...

Maybe time to consider dropping the 32bit iso from BL Carbon?

phil_in_la · 2024-01-05 21:50:02

I don't know what their long term plans are, but... maybe one of the devuan live cd's could be used for i386?

(I probably shouldn't be suggesting anything with that regard, I don't think I have an i386 machine to test on, everything I have is amd64... but I don't like the idea of completely abandoning the low end machines.)

johnraff · 2024-01-06 04:44:18

phil_in_la wrote:

I don't like the idea of completely abandoning the low end machines.

Nor me. I have a nice little 32bit laptop, very light and portable, that I would hate to throw away. If Devuan continued to make 32bit isos then that might possibly be an option - for me.

But BL is based on Debian, and if they stopped providing 32bit kernels or installer support, then I don't think we'd be able to do it on our own.

or1o9 · 2024-01-06 07:34:24

Well maybe it is time to let 32bit go then? I do not have any such hardware anymore, threw it away years ago. And if there still is BL users that are dependent on 32bit (which I doubt) Boron will be working for several years to come.

Or there will probably be some enthusiast somewhere that will keep the flame burning in Linux for 32 bit that will be a usable solution so to speak.

And more important, who should do the work? Is it not better to use the energy on other more current things? I am sure there is plenty to do since there always will be changes, progression and development coming whether we like it or not. So why waste it on phased out technology when there is new challenges arriving every day?

johnraff · 2024-01-07 07:05:15

Boron will have a 32bit iso. Since it looks as if Debian will still have 32bit Trixie kernels then no reason not to continue one more release to Carbon I guess. https://packages.debian.org/trixie/linux-image-686-pae

After that, probably doubtful, but it seems unlikely that many people will be using 32bit computers in 2030 for other than sentimental reasons.

New challenges are coming up indeed... wayland, GTK4, who knows what else?

Last edited by johnraff (2024-01-09 04:49:31)

jeffreyC · 2024-01-08 23:10:15

It will be interesting to see what the antiX devs do, they focus much more on the old computers.

Sector11 · 2024-01-09 01:22:17

Does the forum support "polls" Let's ask the user base?

no 386 here

Sly33 · 2024-01-09 02:15:50

I have a small HP mini1000 craptop from 2008 with an 1.6Ghz atom processor. It is currently running Boron 32 bit. I did try 5 or 6 distribution on that machine and Bunsen is always the best in terms of looks/usability.
Linux Mint Debian edition was good looking but too heavy to play nice on the machine. But seriously I use this laptop to play mp3 in my workshop just for the cool factor, nothing serious here.

m1rr0r5h4d35 · 2024-01-09 18:52:20

Hello all! Long time no talk to, but I would like to weigh in here if I may. I have a dell Inspiron mini 10 and an HP Slate that are both older Atom processors, as well as six or seven P4-powered desktops. I am currently able to press the Slate and Inspiron Mini into service using Linux, although their usefulness may be argued, I mostly only use them for word processors and CLI progs. The desktops have been gathering dust for years. Also good for SSH sessions, playing music and stuff like DOSBox. Most browsers won't run on them anymore, and streaming is out of the question. My Inspiron can play 720p video locally without a hitch, though.

I will say that despite many of the *buntu and Linux Mint 32-bit offerings out there, I haven't seen any of them actually boot on real hardware in years. If I actually want to do anything with them, my options have been limited for some time now. BL, Debian, Antix, Bohdi, OpenBSD, FreeDOS and Slackware seem to be the few that can still breath life into one of these old machines.

I think the harshest blow is the fact that almost no software can run reliably on them anymore, regardless of which distribution you choose to put on one. I think most people who are running these today are likely going to use them for retrogaming, in which case they are probably going to install an older version of Windows, but even that has started to die off thanks to software like PC em allowing folks to run older versions of Windows nearly flawlessly inside a VM with 3D acceleration supported. Although it is a bittersweet farewell, I think you could safely drop support for them when Debian does, and still be ok.

Hopefully this can allay any lingering fears folks may have.

Sector11 · 2024-01-10 12:02:24

This:

I think the harshest blow is the fact that almost no software can run reliably on them anymore, regardless of which distribution you choose to put on one.

is probably right up there for the reasons Debian is going this route.

rbh · 2024-01-12 14:05:36

m1rr0r5h4d35 wrote:

I think the harshest blow is the fact that almost no software can run reliably on them anymore, regardless of which distribution you choose to put on one. I think most people who are running these today are likely going to use them for retrogaming,

I have a couple of 32 bit laptops, running ok on BL and Debian. No problem browsing with firefox or reading / writing textfiles.
The amount of RAM, is crucial for what you can do...

jeffreyC · 2024-01-16 19:23:32

My only remaining 32-bit system is my ThinkPad A20m, it is maxed out at 512MB of RAM so It will not be usable on the modern internet, no real need to put a newer release on it.
RAM or rather the lack of it is what cripples 32-bit systems for general use.

Last edited by jeffreyC (2024-01-16 19:25:45)

rbh · 2024-01-16 20:14:22

jeffreyC wrote:

RAM or rather the lack of it is what cripples 32-bit systems for general use.

I still updates my old IBM Ihinkpad X30, with 500 MB RAM. With Dillo, I can read onlinedocumentation. My IBM TP 42, with 750 MB RAM is usable even when surfing with Firefox. I am content with the performance of my IBM TP 43, with 1.5 GB RAM.
If you are using 32 bit pc with ≤ 1 GB RAM, you need to select and uninstall unnecessary services.

I guess there is still plenty of 32 bit systems with 2-3 GB RAM, they works quite well with openbox and other light linux systems.

johnraff · 2024-01-17 05:06:32

rbh wrote:

I guess there is still plenty of 32 bit systems with 2-3 GB RAM, they works quite well with openbox and other light linux systems.

My 32bit laptop has 1GB RAM and is quite usable with BL Beryllium.
Except for heavy web pages on Firefox - Google maps is close to useless.

Last edited by johnraff (2024-01-17 05:08:06)

jeffreyC · 2024-01-19 18:18:43

johnraff wrote:

rbh wrote:
I guess there is still plenty of 32 bit systems with 2-3 GB RAM, they works quite well with openbox and other light linux systems.
My 32bit laptop has 1GB RAM and is quite usable with BL Beryllium.
Except for heavy web pages on Firefox - Google maps is close to useless.

Heavy web pages are the new normal though.

johnraff · 2024-01-20 01:53:18

^Yes indeed, which is why an old computer is close to useless if you want to do a lot of web browsing, watch videos etc.

For looking up documentation dillo is fine, so depending on what you plan to do a 32bit computer might still have a purpose in life.

rbh · 2024-01-20 12:12:53

johnraff wrote:

^Yes indeed, which is why an old computer is close to useless if you want to do a lot of web browsing, watch videos etc.

Obviously there is a big difference in what is perceived as useless. When I'm using my old IBM T43 wit 1.5 MB RAM, I'm content with boot time of 2 min. I see no problem waiting some seconds for the browser to load Google maps, searching for a place, show the direction, change to satellite view, zoom in on the target to examine the surroundings, change over to street view for further examination.
Even having a handful tabs open, is no problem, with one of them playing music video from YouTube and writing this post in one.

But I prefer do one task at a time. Multitasking with heavy work in them all is not to think of.

It is 19 years old but still going strong.

Sprinterdriver · 2024-04-23 20:46:30

I have one stationary computer with AMD Athlon XP 2000+ cpu build around 2023, 1GB ram. Bunsenlabs and Elive are two distros that is able to run on this computer. Not suitable for web browsing of course but I'm continue to having this because it still is useful as a file server.

My spouse have an old thosiba satelite from about 2002, but because the Pentium CPU is a very cheap variant with lack of features - even for it's time - it's difficult to make it run properly.

However - I also have an Acer travelmate from 2002, quite expensive at the time. That one have a keyboard that in my oppinion are much better than many of the today lower end laptops - hence it does a very good job as a typewriter.

Those computers are of course not used daily, but not being able to install Linux on those in the future.

I feel I'm probably just to dumb to put those computers on fire, the hardware have - how to put this - a sentimental value. I will no longer be able to keep up a proud attitude when passing by the windows fanboys that complaints about the lack of W11 support for older hardware.

I will no longer be able to truthfully tell the MS boys that I still can run my old hardware on a updated OS - the argument will no longer hold any value because the MS boys can claim to be able to run W2000/XP/7 as well on a computer disconnected from the web.

johnraff · 2024-04-24 03:17:57

Anyway, as long as Debian provide the necessary pieces we will continue to provide a 32bit build - but that might not be much longer. Even Trixie might be in doubt.

Bearded_Blunder · 2024-06-02 23:14:59

FWIW I just today (June 2nd 2024) installed 32 bit Sid for a lark, used the netboot mini.iso (all 46M of it), text mode installer only, but still the normal D-I otherwise, advanced mode to get offered to pick Sid, it defaults to Trixie.

I have real 32 bit hardware (a laptop, still running a PATA spinning disk) I might try that on next, if I can remember the kernel parameter I need to add to force PAE because of a bug in the Pentium M chip, it has it but doesn't report it, I can easily look that up though.

#1 2023-12-20 02:41:41

Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#2 2024-01-05 21:50:02

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#3 2024-01-06 04:44:18

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#4 2024-01-06 07:34:24

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#5 2024-01-07 07:05:15

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#6 2024-01-08 23:10:15

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#7 2024-01-09 01:22:17

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#8 2024-01-09 02:15:50

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#9 2024-01-09 18:52:20

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#10 2024-01-10 12:02:24

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#11 2024-01-12 14:05:36

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#12 2024-01-16 19:23:32

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#13 2024-01-16 20:14:22

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#14 2024-01-17 05:06:32

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#15 2024-01-19 18:18:43

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#16 2024-01-20 01:53:18

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#17 2024-01-20 12:12:53

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#18 2024-04-23 20:46:30

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#19 2024-04-24 03:17:57

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

#20 2024-06-02 23:14:59

Re: Debian look likely to drop the i386 installer

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