Status Please - May 25 2022

dmontaine2 · 2022-05-25 19:41:58

1)If I follow the instructions to build the experimental distro, are there still things missing as of today.

2) Are there still issues regarding the actual distro, or are the remaining items to complete in the creation of the iso images and the website.

Thank you.

Last edited by dmontaine2 (2022-05-25 22:01:51)

johnraff · 2022-05-26 04:03:27

1) No, just install the packages as described and you'll have pretty much the full system. Later, when the official release comes out you'll need to edit the apt url in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list

2) The amd64 and i386 isos are almost ready - any final changes to the user desktop experience will be very small.

Leatherman · 2022-06-11 18:17:39

Maybe start "developing" for Bookworm and forget 11....LOL

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-14 12:39:52

Leatherman wrote:

Maybe start "developing" for Bookworm and forget 11....LOL

Do I remember correctly; Lithium was slow to release because some kind of frame work was being put in place to speed future releases?

"I didn't have time" works for a month or two, but it's been, what, nine months since Bullseye's release?

People make the time to do the things they want to do. Feels like something else is going on here...

dmontaine2 · 2022-06-14 21:00:02

Whatever the issues are, perhaps the best thing is to ask if help is needed and, if so, what specific skill sets are needed. Can't do much about the delays to Beryllium, but perhaps, if more people get involved now, the next release can come more quickly.

johnraff · 2022-06-14 23:46:00

dmontaine2 wrote:

...perhaps, if more people get involved now, the next release can come more quickly.

Some truth here - and thanks for giving it thought!

The main thing that comes to mind for me is for more people to install the experimental release, try all the tools and widgets and report any bugs, or things that could be improved. There hasn't really been a huge amount of feedback - what tends to happen is that people wait for the iso. Fixing a small bug at that point is far more time-consuming than when it would just be an upgrade of a single package.

I had an idea of copying Debian and imposing a Freeze at around the time Stable comes out, just before our iso building would start. After the freeze only bugs would be considered - no enhancement suggestions. Maybe that would get more feedback at the early stages?

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-15 01:17:31

How many potential new users in the last 6 months took a look at BL and said, "Buster? forget about it."
Is perfection becoming the enemy of the good? Isn't that what point releases are for?
Sleekmason has been putting out new ISOs every few weeks with upgrades.
I still say something else is going on here.

edit: I've built a few custom Lilidog spins for my own use. It's just not that hard if I can do it.

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2022-06-15 01:27:31)

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-16 19:17:17

Naik · 2022-06-16 19:56:25

johnraff wrote:

The main thing that comes to mind for me is for more people to install the experimental release, try all the tools and widgets and report any bugs, or things that could be improved. There hasn't really been a huge amount of feedback [...]

As for that: I am right now using berylium on two machines on bare metal. I went to full Berylium after 3 months without any issues (related to BL that is) on my main laptop (which is a dual boot and used for work - see the level of trust?) and am playing with berylium on a testing/sid base on another machine. Both run great!
I vote for: LET'S GO!

naik --greetz

DeepDayze · 2022-06-16 21:45:19

Naik wrote:

johnraff wrote:
The main thing that comes to mind for me is for more people to install the experimental release, try all the tools and widgets and report any bugs, or things that could be improved. There hasn't really been a huge amount of feedback [...]
As for that: I am right now using berylium on two machines on bare metal. I went to full Berylium after 3 months without any issues (related to BL that is) on my main laptop (which is a dual boot and used for work - see the level of trust?) and am playing with berylium on a testing/sid base on another machine. Both run great!
I vote for: LET'S GO!
naik --greetz

Ditto here. Laptop upgraded from Lithium to Beryllium experimental with no showstoppers. Desktop was Debian updated to BL using netinstall script.

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-16 23:20:26

Let me offer to make the build and create the ISO.
I have a fat pipe.
I have a beast to build it on.

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2022-06-16 23:27:57)

kozimodo · 2022-06-17 00:35:47

My son’s desktop has been running beryllium for 6 months with no problems.

johnraff · 2022-06-17 01:37:09

eight.bit.al wrote:

Let me offer to make the build and create the ISO.

Offer much appreciated but it's not necessary, thanks. I have already built both 64 bit and 32 bit isos, several times each. They were shared with devs and various issues pointed out. I'm now working on those issues, before doing what I hope will be the final build.

My point about getting feedback before the build stage was that if more people had been checking out the Be packages earlier, most of the issues which just came up would have been caught at the package-upgrade stage(s).

One that only applied post-build was that an encrypted install lacked the grub passphrase prompt. Boot impossible. Cause was lack of cryptsetup-intitramfs but pinning that down and finding the cleanest fix took some time searching changelogs, Debian bug reports and mailing lists. Issue hidden before because on Buster cryptsetup-initramfs was a dependency of cryptsetup but now it's a recommend. Our build runs apt without recommends to avoid bloat. Cryptsetup was on our install list, but not cryptsetup-initramfs. Live-build (for its own reasons) installs cryptsetup but not cryptsetup-initramfs. Debian installer installs cryptsetup if user chooses encrypted system, but if it's already installed then the recommended cryptsetup-initramfs doesn't get installed. Final fix was to add cryptsetup-initramfs to our build install list. Not ideal because many users won't want it.

I think there might be bugs with both live-build and debian-installer to report here, but it will take more time to research it properly, which I don't have right now. roll

This is the kind of nitty-gritty stuff that can hold things up.

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-17 16:46:16

Caution: opinions ahead.

It's unlikely there would be a single thing to point to that would fix the problem.

First can we agree there is a problem? Many months after Bullseye's release, there is no BL release.
At the time of writing this, there are 307 days since the release of Bullseye. That's just over 10 months.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=days+between+ … &ia=answer

If that's not a problem, then skip the rest of this post and have a merry day.
Here are a few ways to say, "See ya!." - Pick yours. smile No harm; no foul.
https://www.themuse.com/advice/how-to-e … -sign-offs

If you're still here...

johnraff wrote:

The main thing that comes to mind for me is for more people to install the experimental release, try all the tools and widgets and report any bugs, or things that could be improved. There hasn't really been a huge amount of feedback - what tends to happen is that people wait for the iso.

Well dha!

We don't have enough beta testers, so lets make beta testers jump through hoops.

Find the right thread on the forum.
Dl the net install.
R̶̶̶e̶̶̶a̶̶̶d̶̶̶ ̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶r̶̶̶o̶̶̶u̶̶̶g̶̶̶h̶̶̶ ̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶m̶̶̶a̶̶̶n̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶c̶̶̶o̶̶̶r̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶c̶̶̶t̶̶̶i̶̶̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶s̶̶̶ ̶t̶̶̶o̶̶̶ ̶f̶̶̶i̶̶̶g̶̶̶u̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶i̶̶̶t̶̶̶ ̶o̶̶̶u̶̶̶t̶̶̶.̶ Looks like it's been cleaned up since I saw it last.

Running through the process, I get to:

Is that an oh or a zero?

Open another tab and start a reply to test:

Lowercase oh, uppercase oh, zero.

Looks like a zero which leads to:

Now I'm ready to pull the plug on this whole thing. It's handy I have a second computer to view the forum to use as a guide. Other wise I would have to print out the instructions.

But I press on, for the sake of the project.

And wait. And wait. And wait. Looks like it's trying IPv6. Ah finally:

At this point, I'm a little unnerved. Fsck it.

Beta testers should not have to work this hard to to BL a favor.
Beta ISOs should be provided. Period. Full stop.
It's just not that hard, or time consuming to build an ISO.

Announce it on the forum. Let BL fans go at it.
It's not like some distros that announce beta builds/release candidates on DistroWatch.

johnraff wrote:

I had an idea of copying Debian and imposing a Freeze at around the time Stable comes out, just before our iso building would start. After the freeze only bugs would be considered - no enhancement suggestions. Maybe that would get more feedback at the early stages?

How 'bout making it easier for the testers?

If your only going to release beta ISOs to a couple of Devs, you're not going to get much real world testing, buy real world users, on a variety of hardware.

Which brings me to the second point.

Perfection being the enemy of the good.

johnraff wrote:

I think there might be bugs with both live-build and debian-installer to report here, but it will take more time to research it properly, which I don't have right now.
This is the kind of nitty-gritty stuff that can hold things up.

You think there might be?

Well of course there is. There always is. No software is perfect. So pop out a beta ISO so others can help with the research of the possible installer issue.

I've happily given my time for the betterment of BL. I'd like to see the effort in real time.

How many potential new users in the last 6 months went elsewhere because they didn't want to have to reinstall when Be is released Real Soon Now™?

I especially like the, "When It's Done" means don't hold your breath part.

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-17 16:56:53

A good, IMHO; distro to look at for release cycle style is :

KaOS

https://kaosx.us/

https://forum.kaosx.us/d/2954-test-cycle-202206-iso

It's a similar type of spin to BL, a small (single?) developer, for a niche market.

If it wasn't so bleeding edge I'd use it. I did for a while, back in my Plasma craze. (I feel better now) An update broke Firefox, and it was almost two days for a fix. Sent me into the loving arms of Debian.

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2022-06-17 17:13:24)

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-17 18:38:21

johnraff · 2022-06-18 00:55:33

I read your post. roll

eight.bit.al wrote:

Is that an oh or a zero?

Doesn't matter how your chosen font displays it, just copy off the screen and paste into a terminal. It works.

eight.bit.al · 2022-06-18 01:22:03

johnraff wrote:

I read your post.
eight.bit.al wrote:
Is that an oh or a zero?
Doesn't matter how your chosen font displays it, just copy off the screen and paste into a terminal. It works.

There's no screen to copy it from at this point in the process. All we have a a minimal CLI install of Debian.
roll

I got to see the Welcome Screen scroll; that all I wanted. Kicks BL to the curb and walks away.

Bearded_Blunder · 2022-06-18 01:33:37

eight.bit.al wrote:

Is that an oh or a zero?

It's the upper case letter O as for wget "-O" is the short form of --output-document=
I suppose the long form could have been used in the guide instead, though frankly just trying the two likely options is probably faster than typing the long form.

johnraff wrote:

Doesn't matter how your chosen font displays it, just copy off the screen and paste into a terminal. It works.

That's a tad awkward when installing on a fresh Debian CLI system, unless you ssh in from a system that has a useful browser, at the point you need it to install Beryllium the bare Bullseye install doesn't...

That said, the process isn't anything I'd personally describe as difficult, or "Jumping through hoops".
From a dev perspective modifying the metapackage is WAY easier than issuing a whole new beta iso, & from a user/tester perspective I don't see the process as any more difficult than repeatedly burning new isos either.. just use the existing Debian netinstall one over & over to try out updated versions if you feel the need to reinstall between versions of the meta..

johnraff · 2022-06-18 04:14:52

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

johnraff wrote:
Doesn't matter how your chosen font displays it, just copy off the screen and paste into a terminal. It works.
That's a tad awkward when installing on a fresh Debian CLI system...

True indeed. Replied a bit hastily there.

#1 2022-05-25 19:41:58

Status Please - May 25 2022

#2 2022-05-26 04:03:27

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#3 2022-06-11 18:17:39

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#4 2022-06-14 12:39:52

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#5 2022-06-14 21:00:02

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#6 2022-06-14 23:46:00

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#7 2022-06-15 01:17:31

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#8 2022-06-16 19:17:17

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#9 2022-06-16 19:56:25

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#10 2022-06-16 21:45:19

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#11 2022-06-16 23:20:26

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#12 2022-06-17 00:35:47

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#13 2022-06-17 01:37:09

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#14 2022-06-17 16:46:16

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#15 2022-06-17 16:56:53

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#16 2022-06-17 18:38:21

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#17 2022-06-18 00:55:33

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#18 2022-06-18 01:22:03

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#19 2022-06-18 01:33:37

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

#20 2022-06-18 04:14:52

Re: Status Please - May 25 2022

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