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#1 2021-08-21 19:14:11

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,182

Version numbering

Hi!

I propose that we use same version numbering as Debian.

So starting from Berylium, it should be Berylium 11.0.
If new point release has to be made, with same Debian base, just ad "-x".
That is 11.0.0-2 for the second.

Then it is easier to see that BL Berylium 11.0, is based on Debian 11.0.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#2 2021-08-21 23:15:42

DeepDayze
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From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,327

Re: Version numbering

That sounds good, and lets see what the dev team has to say.


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#3 2021-08-22 01:40:41

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,278
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Re: Version numbering

Version numbering is surprisingly important, and can be surprisingly tricky!

Actually, we were discussing this very issue the other day, and came to the opposite conclusion:
from Beryllium, BunsenLabs releases numbers reported by os-release and friends will have no point numbers, so Beryllium will be reported as 11 throughout.

In fact, debian "point releases" have very little meaning - it's just when a whole bunch of packages get upgrades simultaneously, and Debian install media are rebuilt. Users who have been regularly upgrading their packages will see no dramatic change. This applies to BL users too, so there's no particular reason to change the BL version number to match Debian's, while there are complications elsewhere caused by the point number.

BL isos are built from the Debian packages at the build time but /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install shows the iso build date (and user's install time) so we can easily identify the iso if any newer iso is built later.


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#4 2021-08-22 02:30:30

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,327

Re: Version numbering

johnraff wrote:

Version numbering is surprisingly important, and can be surprisingly tricky!

Actually, we were discussing this very issue the other day, and came to the opposite conclusion:
from Beryllium, BunsenLabs releases numbers reported by os-release and friends will have no point numbers, so Beryllium will be reported as 11 throughout.

In fact, debian "point releases" have very little meaning - it's just when a whole bunch of packages get upgrades simultaneously, and Debian install media are rebuilt. Users who have been regularly upgrading their packages will see no dramatic change. This applies to BL users too, so there's no particular reason to change the BL version number to match Debian's, while there are complications elsewhere caused by the point number.

BL isos are built from the Debian packages at the build time but /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install shows the iso build date (and user's install time) so we can easily identify the iso if any newer iso is built later.

That sounds like a good compromise there and it makes sense.


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#5 2021-08-22 08:45:40

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,182

Re: Version numbering

johnraff wrote:

In fact, debian "point releases" have very little meaning - it's just when a whole bunch of packages get upgrades simultaneously, and Debian install media are rebuilt.

The naming scheme is a good service. If a user, from https://ftp.acc.umu.se/images/archive, want to download latest buster iso, it is easy to spot 10.10. And use that iso instead of the old 10.1 (or the working rc-candidate) he downloade ages ago. If he sees that ha already has 10.9, he might consider skip download the new.

Users who have been regularly upgrading their packages will see no dramatic change. This applies to BL users too, so there's no particular reason to change the BL version number to match Debian's,

A naming scheme of BL isos is necessary. Setting BL 11 for Beryllium, instead of BL 3, is good service for all.

while there are complications elsewhere caused by the point number.

I am sory, but I can not se them. There is no problems for Debian...

There must be a way to distinguish a new beryllium iso from the first stable and release-candidates, without opening them. Instead of name the (eventual) second stable  beryllium_11-2, add the Debian pointnr when the iso was build;  beryllium_11.3. If by some misfortune, a new berylium iso based on debian 11.3, has to be build, simply add "-2", that would be beryllium_11.3-2.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#6 2021-08-22 09:42:15

twoion
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Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,317

Re: Version numbering

rbh wrote:

A naming scheme of BL isos is necessary. Setting BL 11 for Beryllium, instead of BL 3, is good service for all.

while there are complications elsewhere caused by the point number.

I am sory, but I can not se them. There is no problems for Debian...

There must be a way to distinguish a new beryllium iso from the first stable and release-candidates, without opening them. Instead of name the (eventual) second stable  beryllium_11-2, add the Debian pointnr when the iso was build;  beryllium_11.3. If by some misfortune, a new berylium iso based on debian 11.3, has to be build, simply add "-2", that would be beryllium_11.3-2.

Rest assured, the ISO naming will be taken care of. Attaching a build number should take care of it. RCs always had rc in their names, don't see why that would be different now.

BL will always be just 11, because I am not in the mood anymore to follow Debian point releases by way of updating the package just to bump the version. I got to update the package almost always too late after Debian bumped their point release; and point releases in Debian are meaningless from a software point of view anyway, so I don't see why dropping them would hurt. It eleminates toil, as I see it.

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#7 2021-08-22 10:43:31

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,182

Re: Version numbering

twoion wrote:

point releases in Debian are meaningless from a software point of view anyway, so I don't see why dropping them would hurt. It eleminates toil, as I see it.

If not an point nr, at least build date...


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#8 2021-08-22 14:45:23

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,278
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Re: Version numbering

^As I said above, the iso build date is already visible in /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install (along with the iso version number).


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#9 2021-08-22 17:49:46

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,182

Re: Version numbering

johnraff wrote:

^As I said above, the iso build date is already visible in /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install (along with the iso version number).

I am talking about the iso naming scheme...


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#10 2021-08-23 01:16:53

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,278
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Re: Version numbering

Iso info here, build date and version number:

john@lithium:~$ cat /etc/bunsen/bunsen_install 
Install method: iso
Version: lithium-RC5-amd64
Disk info: Debian GNU/Linux 10 _Lithium_ - Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20200722-09:44
Install date: 2020-08-12T09:01:12

How is what you're talking about different from that?


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( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

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#11 2021-08-23 01:35:32

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,069

Re: Version numbering

^ I think he means the actual name of the iso.

lithium-2.1-amd64.hybrid.iso
lithium-2.1-2-amd64.hybrid.iso
lithium-2.1-3-amd64.hybrid.iso

and so on.

8bit

edit: And I also like paralleling the Debian scheme:

lithium-10.2-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.0-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.0-2-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.1-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.1-2-amd64.hybrid.iso

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-08-23 02:00:55)


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#12 2021-08-23 03:02:29

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,327

Re: Version numbering

eight.bit.al wrote:

^ I think he means the actual name of the iso.

lithium-2.1-amd64.hybrid.iso
lithium-2.1-2-amd64.hybrid.iso
lithium-2.1-3-amd64.hybrid.iso

and so on.

8bit

edit: And I also like paralleling the Debian scheme:

lithium-10.2-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.0-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.0-2-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.1-1-amd64.hybrid.iso
berylium 11.1-2-amd64.hybrid.iso


I like that idea of naming the ISO file itself with that scheme where point releases may parallel stable release update versions and the minor dash version would be simply a revision of the ISO such as say -1 for initial ISO, then -2 for a BL revision.


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#13 2021-08-23 04:59:00

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,278
Website

Re: Version numbering

^The problem with that is that our release schedule is in no way bound to the Debian point releases (which are anyway somewhat meaningless as @twoion has already pointed out).

We release refreshed isos when they're necessary - I think one might be needed right now in fact because of the bug probably triggered by the Buster stable > oldstable transition - but usually only 2 or 3 in a particular BL release. The difference between isos other than the preinstalled packages is extremely small - a refresh is done to save users a massive amount of post-install updating. (In the current case, though, it will be to get a bugfixed version of debian-installer.)

BTW the final dash-separated number in a Debian package version has a very specific meaning:
https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic … -f-version

But isos aren't packages. I personally see no reason to change our current numbering system. Normally it would be Lithium-1 Lithium-2...
Lithium-2.1 came about because there was a glitch in the Lithium-2 iso, and we wanted to avoid possible name clashes.

Beryllium will go Beryllium-RC1 Beryllium-RC2... then Beryllium-1 Beryllium-2...

And BunsenLabs itself will stay at version 11 throughout the Beryllium release.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#14 2021-08-24 01:40:08

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,327

Re: Version numbering

johnraff wrote:

^The problem with that is that our release schedule is in no way bound to the Debian point releases (which are anyway somewhat meaningless as @twoion has already pointed out).

We release refreshed isos when they're necessary - I think one might be needed right now in fact because of the bug probably triggered by the Buster stable > oldstable transition - but usually only 2 or 3 in a particular BL release. The difference between isos other than the preinstalled packages is extremely small - a refresh is done to save users a massive amount of post-install updating. (In the current case, though, it will be to get a bugfixed version of debian-installer.)

BTW the final dash-separated number in a Debian package version has a very specific meaning:
https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic … -f-version

But isos aren't packages. I personally see no reason to change our current numbering system. Normally it would be Lithium-1 Lithium-2...
Lithium-2.1 came about because there was a glitch in the Lithium-2 iso, and we wanted to avoid possible name clashes.

Beryllium will go Beryllium-RC1 Beryllium-RC2... then Beryllium-1 Beryllium-2...

And BunsenLabs itself will stay at version 11 throughout the Beryllium release.

Yes, I meant that 11 for Bullseye, with a point to signify a point release of Bullseye and a dash with number to identify an ISO release with -1 being the original and -2 -3 -4 etc being BL's own point releases, at least for naming the ISO's that are released.

Keeping release names as you mentioned as opposed to the filename for the ISO is fine IMO.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-08-24 01:41:10)


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