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#401 2020-06-28 02:55:45

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,305
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

A Japanese post about BL that I hit by accident:
https://ameblo.jp/gokurakuhaze/entry-12573231482.html
Detailed installation instructions, and fairly positive comments, except for the tint2 GUI editor, and the memory usage, which was similar to XFCE. I don't know if there's anything we can do about that.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#402 2020-06-28 09:06:33

deanr72
Member
Registered: 2020-05-09
Posts: 13

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

johnraff wrote:

...the memory usage, which was similar to XFCE. I don't know if there's anything we can do about that.

Pretty new user here after recently installing Helium on my 8-year old work laptop. As a new user I've been reading more than my fair share of reviews of BL and openbox-based distros in general.

By far the most common 'complaint' is that BL is no longer a light distro. Indeed, my 4GB Lenovo Ideapad ground to a standstill last week when I had 3 LibreOffice docs open and then open a fourth with comments. I had to move to the desktop to complete my work.

Unfortunately, I already know that it won't be worth installing Litheum on my lappy and may have to go back to Antix with JWM instead (although I'll try Crunchbang++ first) just to keep it workable :-/

*May consider running BL alongside Q4OS KDE on my desktop.

Last edited by deanr72 (2020-06-28 09:10:42)

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#403 2020-06-28 12:19:28

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,940

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

deanr72 wrote:

Unfortunately, I already know that it won't be worth installing Litheum on my lappy and may have to go back to Antix with JWM instead (although I'll try Crunchbang++ first) just to keep it workable :-/

BL doesn't try to be especially minimal or light, it tries to be usable and to allow for good productivity without too much sacrifice. LibreOffice 6.1 might use 500M per spreadsheet nowadays; there is nothing we can do about it, and at zero cost LO still has the best general-purpose compatibility in Office land. You're welcome to try TextMaker/PlanMaker, gnumeric or Calligra etc etc as replacements but I highly doubt that LO per se will use less memory when running elsewhere, in the same version, with the same documents open. Honestly, Microsoft Office 2010 on WINE is probably the best investment you can make in terms of features-per-megabyte-of-RAM, and lighter than LibreOffice is with its legacy of Sun StarOffice, a dozen programming languages including Java, endless modularity and efforts to stay compatible with MS document formats still somewhere in there.


Per aspera ad astra.

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#404 2020-06-28 14:33:53

deanr72
Member
Registered: 2020-05-09
Posts: 13

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Erm. From the welcome page of BL: BunsenLabs Linux Helium is a distribution offering a light-weight and easily customizable Openbox desktop.

Anyway, I appreciate the problem I had was with LibreOffice and sure, if someone needs a truly light-weight distro there are other places to go to - and other software to use.

I was just responding to a previous post that mentioned that RAM usage is actually quite high in general (most Plasma DEs boot at approx. 500 nowadays) and for many people that come to BunsenLabs as I did expecting a light-weight distro because it uses Openbox, they may be disappointed.

For what it's worth I really enjoy using BL Helium.

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#405 2020-06-28 15:09:25

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 627

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

BL has definitely drifted away from the minimalism of #!.
Whether that is good or not is a matter of opinion.
Different strokes for different folks.
Try Head_on_a_Stick's ♯!

8bit


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#406 2020-06-28 15:34:03

deanr72
Member
Registered: 2020-05-09
Posts: 13

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

eight.bit.al wrote:

Try Head_on_a_Stick's ♯!

Thanks, I'll check it out!

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#407 2020-06-28 18:27:47

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,493
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

deanr72 wrote:

Erm. From the welcome page of BL: BunsenLabs Linux Helium is a distribution offering a light-weight and easily customizable Openbox desktop.

If by light we mean RAM usage of the desktop at idle and disc space needed for installation, we're way lighter than GNOME, and lighter than even a stripped-down KDE install.

"Light and easily customizable..." We're trying to simulate a whole desktop environment OOTB, but since our desktop doesn't have all the interdependencies of GNOME or KDE or MATE or even Xfce, you can easily remove things and get a very minimal system.

So it's a compromise aimed at getting Debian stable easily installed via a LIVE image, so you can test hardware compatibility before installation, that boots to a working desktop, and then you can customize Debian to your heart's content.

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#408 2020-06-28 23:49:07

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,305
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

eight.bit.al wrote:

BL has definitely drifted away from the minimalism of #!.

This is often said, and I think two separate things are involved here:

1) The user interface has grown (a bit) more sophisticated/complicated. #! had pipemenus, but BL has more. BL has added some functionality over #!, but all this is done with shell scripts, not daemons as with big DEs like Gnome or KDE, so the extra memory load is zero. (Many of the changes in BL Lithium are in fact aimed at making the setup more modular and more easily customizable.) But as @eight.bit.al says, where the ideal compromise between simplicity and convenience lies is an individual choice.

2) System requirements have gone up, but I'm 95% sure that this is due to changes in the underlying Debian system, and nothing that we are adding. I'd bet that if CrunchBang were upgraded to run on Debian Buster its memory use would be similar to BL's. (How is #!++ in that respect btw?)

Last edited by johnraff (2020-06-28 23:51:57)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#409 2020-08-10 14:21:07

truscellino
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2020-06-25
Posts: 12

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Hi everyone,
I came across egee's review of Lithium today on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/fepVyWHdv2Q
He mentions some regressions, mostly around gaming, compared to Helium which he had just reviewed with great praise. I don't play any games personally so I don't mind but I wonder if anyone in the BL community is aware of the issues highlighted? Also the installation problems are strange. I would expect EFI/GPT install to work?

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#410 2020-08-10 14:32:15

truscellino
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2020-06-25
Posts: 12

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

On another note, many linux users/reviewers seem to be obsessed with "RAM usage at idle". It's probably interesting as a rough order of magnitude, but then opening a modern web browser with typical 2020 javascript-bloated web pages will take easily 1-1.5Gb of RAM, so why spending hours discussing about 50-100Mb difference at idle?

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#411 2020-08-10 19:36:40

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,880
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

truscellino wrote:

I came across egee's review of Lithium today on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/fepVyWHdv2Q

I like how the action on the sceen is at double speed while the commentary was dubbed on top of it.
I do not much care for this type of 5-15min distro review, but this is well done.

truscellino wrote:

On another note, many linux users/reviewers seem to be obsessed with "RAM usage at idle". It's probably interesting as a rough order of magnitude, but then opening a modern web browser with typical 2020 javascript-bloated web pages will take easily 1-1.5Gb of RAM, so why spending hours discussing about 50-100Mb difference at idle?

Heh, especially when these same people then gloat about their brand new Ryzen gaming rigs with 128GB of RAM ...
Problem for me: whenever this question comes up I'm in the middle of surfing, obviously, and would have to log out/in to get any sort of meaningful numbers, but then I never bother to do so.
TBH, I'm not much of a counting person. My system works well with room to spare - except when it comes to gaming. Just an ol'Intel onboard GPU.


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#412 2020-08-10 20:08:22

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,398

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Well:

 10 Aug 20 @ 17:00:50 ~
   $ cpu
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G with Radeon Vega Graphics bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Zen 
           L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm bogomips: 27947 
           Speed: 1672 MHz min/max: 1600/3500 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1672 2: 1955 3: 2984 4: 1644 

and onboard graphics:

Graphics:  Device-1: AMD Raven Ridge [Radeon Vega Series / Radeon Vega Mobile Series] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: amdgpu v: kernel 
           bus ID: 07:00.0 chip ID: 1002:15dd 
           Display: tty server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: amdgpu compositor: compton resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: AMD RAVEN (DRM 3.27.0 4.19.0-10-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1) v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6 direct render: Yes 

That chalks up to 1.69GB used right now.

46GB swap space: 0 used.


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
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#413 2020-08-11 00:18:10

MALsPa
Member
From: albuquerque
Registered: 2016-06-20
Posts: 196

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

deanr72 wrote:
eight.bit.al wrote:

Try Head_on_a_Stick's ♯!

Thanks, I'll check it out!

Thanks, eight.bit.al!! Yeah, testing out a live session, and I kinda wish BL offered something simpler like this.

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#414 2020-08-11 01:06:38

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 627

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

MALsPa wrote:
deanr72 wrote:
eight.bit.al wrote:

Try Head_on_a_Stick's ♯!

Thanks, I'll check it out!

Thanks, eight.bit.al!! Yeah, testing out a live session, and I kinda wish BL offered something simpler like this.

It's a big pond, room for all.  smile  ♯!'s minimalism is nice and so is BL's sophistication of #!'s style.
( ♯-sharp symbol)  (#-crunch symbol)

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2020-08-11 01:26:32)


Fly, for a white guy.

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#415 2020-08-11 04:50:21

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,305
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Short review of Lithium on a new site called Distrocrunch:
https://distrocrunch.com/bunsen-labs-li … rt-review/

And comparison of #!, BL and CB++:
https://distrocrunch.com/crunchbang-cru … omparison/


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#416 2020-08-11 09:30:56

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,101
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

^ Seems in line with the goals, so win here imho.
<not serious>I think with simpler default wallpaper 'we' will be a lighter distro, ram usage would fall-dawn as well wink</not serious>

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#417 2020-08-11 20:46:24

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,493
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

truscellino wrote:

On another note, many linux users/reviewers seem to be obsessed with "RAM usage at idle". It's probably interesting as a rough order of magnitude, but then opening a modern web browser with typical 2020 javascript-bloated web pages will take easily 1-1.5Gb of RAM, so why spending hours discussing about 50-100Mb difference at idle?

It's an obsession with some people, and a bit absurd considering the computer specs of machines dating back to over a decade.

I just purchased a 12 year old "refurbished" (brand new except they doubled the RAM and upgraded the Windows OS) Dell laptop. It has 4G RAM. BunsenLabs would fly on this. I'm running Cinnamon on 64 bit Buster, and it flies on this box.

Cinnamon uses 800MB or so at idle and 1.25G of RAM routinely with anything like Spotify or Firefox or GIMP open, but so what? It's solid, everything is snappy, programs open quickly, and it's pretty.

BunsenLabs is using, what, 500MB of RAM at idle after running awhile? That's totally reasonable for a 2G system, and manageable on a 1G computer. You could easily reduce that by half or more, but you'd end up using the same RAM after opening your apps and starting the needed services/daemons.

I've run Plasma on an old 3G RAM laptop, it ran great. In my experience, the initial, "idle" RAM usage of KDE and GNOME is worth it for the unification of services and the stability of the desktop. RAM doesn't go flying up to 1G everytime you open an app the way it does on a 250MB desktop, it goes from 1G to 1.2.

Apologies if I'm using MB when I should be using Mb, I never remember which is correct.

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#418 2020-08-11 20:59:57

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 627

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

^ Internet speeds - Mb   Ram - MB  smile

Internet is measured in Megabits so the number looks big.
Ram is measured in Megabytes so the number is human understandable.
Opinions expressed are the author's and no animals were hurt in the making of this opinion.

8bit


Fly, for a white guy.

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#419 2020-08-11 21:11:12

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,493
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

eight.bit.al wrote:

^ Internet speeds - Mb   Ram - MB  smile

Simple explanation! Very helpful, thank you. Yay, I got it right.

eight.bit.al wrote:

... no animals were hurt in the making of this opinion.

Thank goodness for that! No touchy da' bunny!

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#420 2020-08-11 21:25:06

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,101
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Well, it flies until it doesn't. Blender for example with some of the experimental micro-displacement type of renders will take every bit, so basically an image is renderable with linux/openbox, but not in windows 10.

edit: possibly rare example, still valid.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2020-08-11 21:26:08)

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#421 2020-08-11 21:30:42

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,493
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

Blender is probably the biggest user of RAM of all programs available on the linux desktop, isn't it?

I built the first Hydrogen live-build images of BL on an Atom processor, slow-ass 8G SSD netbook running Debian jessie with 1G of RAM, they built in a little over an hour on that box. RAM was often maxed during the build, but live-build never crashed on me.

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#422 2020-08-11 23:24:30

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,305
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

hhh wrote:

Cinnamon uses 800MB or so at idle and 1.25G of RAM routinely with anything like Spotify or Firefox or GIMP open, but so what? It's solid, everything is snappy, programs open quickly, and it's pretty.
BunsenLabs is using, what, 500MB of RAM at idle after running awhile? That's totally reasonable for a 2G system, and manageable on a 1G computer.

I don't think BL would ever boot up to 500MB RAM on a system with 1GB. On my old 1GB laptops, with Helium I see just under 200MB, and Lithium around 280. I think it's like, the more memory you have, the more the kernel will allocate. Perfectly reasonable, but makes RAM-at-boot comparisons somewhat meaningless, unless they're all on the same machine. Anyway, as @hhh says, RAM is there to be used.

hhh wrote:

I built the first Hydrogen live-build images of BL on an Atom processor, slow-ass 8G SSD netbook running Debian jessie with 1G of RAM, they built in a little over an hour on that box. RAM was often maxed during the build, but live-build never crashed on me.

That's very impressive.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#423 2020-08-12 00:07:19

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 992

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

hhh wrote:

Blender is probably the biggest user of RAM of all programs available on the linux desktop, isn't it?

I built the first Hydrogen live-build images of BL on an Atom processor, slow-ass 8G SSD netbook running Debian jessie with 1G of RAM, they built in a little over an hour on that box. RAM was often maxed during the build, but live-build never crashed on me.

Wowzers...impressive on such low end hardware. In my first forays into Linux back in the mid 90s I compiled  my first kernel on an AMD 386DX/40 that had just a mere 4MB (not GB) RAM off of a 400MB hard disk. Compile took SIX HOURS!!!


Real Men Use Linux

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#424 2020-08-12 06:00:03

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,880
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

eight.bit.al wrote:

Internet speeds - Mb   Ram - MB  smile

Internet is measured in Megabits so the number looks big.

Only on $PROPRIETARY_OS.
Not on Linux.
Every software on every Linux distro I ever used measured net speeds in B, not b.
Up to this day you get panicky newbies posting that their internet speed dropped to 1/8th of what it used to be since they started using Linux.


BL quote proposals to this thread please.
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#425 2020-08-12 07:57:04

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: BunsenLabs Reviews

My first transportable computer was an Amstrad PPC 640, with an built in modem. The bandwith was measured in bits/s.
In the early usenet era, nodes was often connected with dial up modems. They used bitrate, not "bytrate", when they spoke of their bandwidth (also nix-nodes).

Still, most comon is bitrate.
Speedtest, measure default in bits. You can add flagg --bytes, if you want to use bytes...
Iperf3, use bits. When you measure, it says it has tranmsfered xx bytes at Bitrate xx bits/s

Last edited by rbh (2020-08-12 07:58:05)


// Regards rbh

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