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#101 2022-01-13 00:25:56

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,759
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Re: Additions to Beryllium

rbh wrote:
Bearded_Blunder wrote:

Are we going to follow suit or do otherwise as a distro that's not actually part of Debian?

But BL is Debian... Debian with some carefully chosen and crafted configurations.

And a lot of non-free and contrib packages OOTB, correct. Follow suit. We use systemd, we use pulseaudio, when stable switches to pipewire we'll use that, when it switches to Wayland... we'll stay strong and carry on.


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

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#102 2022-01-13 02:24:56

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,615
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Re: Additions to Beryllium

I have already read that (2016) mail discussion and I think BL is confirming to Debian guidelines. We have added an explicit dependency on dbus-x11 because without it the system will fall back to installing dbus-user-session only. With both installed dbus-user-session will still work as usual, while dbus-launch will be available for the few apps that still need it.

Users who don't want dbus-user-session can uninstall it with no major problems. Any issues that would come up are due to the way a modern Debian system is organized.


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#103 2022-01-13 15:02:47

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 787

Re: Additions to Beryllium

I've done a little experimenting, and I now see why you're doing it the way you are.
The problem with doing it the way suggested in the recommendation I quoted is that to get both installed (even if you put both in recommends) is that you'd then need to install bunsen-meta-all without specifying --no-install-recommends & that pulls in an extra (at time of writing on a 32 bit install) 148 packages of cruft we don't want, even though bunsen-meta-all has no recommends itself.

So even though we're handling it differently from literally every official Debian DE there's a sufficient reason. At least one I think most Bunsen users would consider sufficient in a lightweight distro.

FWIW on my non-systemd installs I can actually install everything except dbus-user-session from bunsen-meta-all with a gnarly one-liner apt (or apt-get) pull in exactly one less package(s), no uninstalling or tweaking depends of debs tequired so not an issue.

Alternatively I can by hackery (equivs & a sym-link) rebuild dbus against libelogind-dev instead of libsystemd-dev with control tweaked so it installs & actually have it there - who knows if it works correctly done that way but it certainly builds & spits out all the dbus* debs just fine.

Just wondered why you weren't handling it exactly as that recommendation suggested, now I know, even if I did have to go find out myself rather than someone just telling me.

Edit:
I might still play a bit though, it'd be nice if it could be made init agnostic, who knows, I might manage something, I did when bl-exit was under discussion ;-)

Last edited by Bearded_Blunder (2022-01-13 17:59:17)


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#104 2022-01-14 02:11:08

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,615
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Re: Additions to Beryllium

I haven't checked every official Debian DE, but can now confirm that LXDE no longer comes with dbus-x11 installed, as it once did. Meanwhile the latest Lubuntu-desktop depends on dbus-x11, not dbus-user-session.

As you found, there's no easy way for the metapackage to bring in both dbus packages while making them optional, but not pulling in a raft of other packages' recommends. (Sorry I didn't work out exactly what aspect of it you hadn't got, so I could have saved you that research.) Maybe some day further down the road Debian will bring in ways of making metapackages' dependencies more flexible...

As you know, BL's dev team is very small and we aren't in a position to support multiple flavours, but still want to make the framework as flexible as possible for users to customize to their needs. Bl-exit ships with your init-agnostic code. We could in theory ship an alternative no-systemd metapackage but that would carry a responsibility to respond to users' issues, which I don't think anyone here wants to do at the moment. OTOH if you felt like posting a HOW-TO here on the forums, I'm sure a number of people would appreciate it. smile


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#105 2022-01-14 03:04:36

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 787

Re: Additions to Beryllium

I actually believe I'm onto a potential solution in this particular case, although I suspect it would fall through in the case of Lubuntu.
I've been playing with a modded metapackage served from a local trivial archive with a deb file:/path line in my sources

Under systemd it gets you both dbus-user-session & dbus-x11 from a bare netinstall done as recommended in your how-to, adds dbus-x11 on systems  that have dbus-user-session installed already. The time it "falls through" is that if you only have dbus-x11 that's how it'll leave your system, which for the native Debian DEs under systemd pretty much only arises if someone deliberately set up that way by installing dbus-x11 & removing dbus-user session, at least so far as I can make out.

Or of course, if they switced init & left dbus-user-session a non-option devil

Metapackage still installs under bare netinstall Debian with systemd if you apt-mark hold dbus-user-session to block it, just skips dbus-user-session & leaves you dbus-x11 only.

Oh & if it checks out on 64bit (only tested on 32 so far) you won't need a separate metapackage either.

I'm also working on polishing up my draft how-to .. without straying outside Debian, it needs work though, incidentally it's looking significantly easier for Bullseye than it was with Buster, most of the work left is identifying steps no-longer needed which were with Buster. I don't want to jinx it though.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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