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#51 2020-08-07 16:58:05

brogild
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

Is this still available? I noticed that the link in the OP stopped working a couple of weeks ago and I assumed it had been withdrawn for tweaking, it still doesn't work though, will it be back?

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#52 2020-08-07 18:30:37

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

Is this still available? I noticed that the link in the OP stopped working a couple of weeks ago and I assumed it had been withdrawn for tweaking, it still doesn't work though, will it be back?

Do you need the release-candidate when there is the forst releas of stable lithium iso? (Links on https://www.bunsenlabs.org/installation.html, releasinfo on [STABLE RELEASE] BunsenLabs Lithium Official ISOs


// Regards rbh

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#53 2020-08-08 00:00:00

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,308
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

(Note added to the top post.)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#54 2020-08-08 07:48:58

brogild
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

Thanks for the response, I assumed that the thread OP would be rolling until the final release, but now I notice that [FINISHED] has been added to the title.

You've done a great job in getting the size down, it seems a bit quaint in this day and age to try and produce CD sized ISO's, but I quite like the tradition (do any distros other than Debian still bother?). The 64bit version uses swap a great deal on my 3Gb laptop and I was wondering if the 32bit version use the memory better.

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#55 2020-08-08 07:57:03

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,308
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

^Yes indeed, getting down under 700MB was pretty hard this time and all the tricks had to be brought out...

Next release, Beryllium? Let's wait and see...

Memory handling is just whatever Debian decides - we don't tweak anything there. But the non-PAE kernel that comes in the 32bit iso might behave differently.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#56 2020-08-08 10:00:19

brogild
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

johnraff wrote:

Memory handling is just whatever Debian decides - we don't tweak anything there. But the non-PAE kernel that comes in the 32bit iso might behave differently.

I haven't done any extensive comparisons, but it seemed that Helium used swap a lot less on that machine - at least it has an SSD, it would slow to a crawl with a disk hardrive.

It has a 64bit processor and I've heard that 32bit runs a bit slower on these, but if it handles memory better then the trade-off will be worth it

Last edited by brogild (2020-08-08 10:01:08)

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#57 2020-08-08 10:23:52

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,942

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

Thanks for the response, I assumed that the thread OP would be rolling until the final release, but now I notice that [FINISHED] has been added to the title.

You've done a great job in getting the size down, it seems a bit quaint in this day and age to try and produce CD sized ISO's, but I quite like the tradition (do any distros other than Debian still bother?). The 64bit version uses swap a great deal on my 3Gb laptop and I was wondering if the 32bit version use the memory better.

The problem is that the kernel version is different. Different kernel versions can't be expected to behave in the same way unless you understand and configure a myriad of aspects, and build them using the same configs, etc etc . Likely nothing would change at all when going 32bit again.

There is really no good reason to remain on 32bit nowadays unless you have very specific requirements or no hardware support.

The first thing I'd try is to adjust swappiness https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Swap#Swappiness to 0-5 on your machine -- at first, without making the setting permanent --, and then toggling swap off and on to clear it, and then observe future swapping behaviour:

sudo sysctl -w vm.swappiness=0
sudo swapoff -a
sudo swapon -a

If your system behaves weirdly, try moving the swappiness to 5, then 10.


Per aspera ad astra.

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#58 2020-08-08 10:40:17

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:
johnraff wrote:

Memory handling is just whatever Debian decides - we don't tweak anything there.

seemed that Helium used swap a lot less on that machine

There is a difference between Debian Stretch and Debian Buster. I think there is more that is autostarted in Buster.

you can browse the list of autostarted processes and disable those you do not need. More info aboout program systemctl here https://www.howtogeek.com/216454/how-to … ux-system/
You can manualey start processes you use very seldom.

I do not know if it is still possible to tweak "swapiness". There seems to be different opinions about that. I do not experince that my settings of swappines no longer is obeyed...
You can try.

As root, edit /etc/sysctl.conf. Add "vm.swappiness = 10". Default is 60.

How much ram du you have free, when it starts swapping?

Maybe you should open a new thread in "Basic help", if you need more help.


// Regards rbh

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#59 2020-08-08 11:11:02

brogild
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

You're right, it might be as simple as altering the 'swappiness' so I'll try that. The machine, with my standard apps open, hovers at about 2Gb and then starts swapping at 2.5Gb. This is probably standard behaviour anyway and I wasn't really aware of these things until I had a conky on the desktop, it might not even be use of the swap that slows things down, ie it is filling up by going into sleep mode rather than during regular running.

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#60 2020-08-08 17:53:45

brogild
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

twoion wrote:

There is really no good reason to remain on 32bit nowadays unless you have very specific requirements or no hardware support.

I'm 'experimenting' with this rather than having a firm requirement for it, so I don't a serious urge to open a thread elsewhere. 

The installer hangs after the 'autoconfiguring network' stage and this happens whether I'm trying to connect via ethernet or wirlessly, and has happened on two different machines, possibly manually configuring works but I haven't tried that yet.
It installed ok without network (it's a bit fiddly to get around this), and had to add in the repositories afterwards. I am however missing the public key for the 'kelaino' repository, can I get hold of this somewhere, or can I find it on the install medium?

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#61 2020-08-08 21:12:02

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

The 64bit version uses swap a great deal on my 3Gb laptop and I was wondering if the 32bit version use the memory better.

The 32bit version uses less memory by definition and is also much less powerful mathematically, by definition. However, if you want low RAM usage and the programs you run are all available in 32 bit versions, 32 bit will work just fine for you...

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/differenc … g-systems/

I'm using amd64 (64 bit) Buster (cinnamon) on an old Dell 4G RAM laptop and amd64 Lithium (openbox) on an old Dell 3G one. They both run fine.

I haven't been paying attention to swap usage, but I'll post back if swap gets used more on the 3G laptop if I notice it.

BTW, is there a set of apps that you often run simultaneously that are RAM heavy and might cause swap to be used? Is there a performance hit when swap starts up, lagging or screen artifacts or crashes or anything? If it's just that you see it in conky sucking up swap with no performance degradation, don't worry about it. It's linux working the way it should. In crude and inaccurate layman's terms, some RAM is being stored on another part of your hard drive temporarily...

https://access.redhat.com/documentation … -swapspace

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#62 2020-08-08 22:08:58

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

I am however missing the public key for the 'kelaino' repository, can I get hold of this somewhere, or can I find it on the install medium?

$ wget -q https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/lithium-dev.asc -O - | sudo apt-key add -

Import stable lithium key

wget -q https://ddl.bunsenlabs.org/ddl/BunsenLabs-RELEASE.asc -O- | sudo apt-key add -

And change repos BL repos to:

deb https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian/ lithium main
deb https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian/ buster-backports main

Last edited by rbh (2020-08-08 22:09:51)


// Regards rbh

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#63 2020-08-08 22:50:46

fishesandloaves
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From: Central Ohio USA
Registered: 2017-03-26
Posts: 2

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

BL team, thanks for continuing to support an i386 installation. For those of us who still tinker with old hardware (a couple netbooks in my case), the i386 installation is a must. It all went smoothly today, except for the Dropbox installation. The email that I gave and the email for my Dropbox account are different, and I couldn't get the sign in to work (403 errors with it complaining that I was logged in to a different account). The install seems to be assuming that the emails are the same, which (if so) was not helpful. Enjoyed Hydrogen and Helium, and now on to Lithium!

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#64 2020-08-09 02:37:42

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 994

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

I am going to install Lithium onto an IBM Thinkpad T42 that I use as a netbook when I travel. This is an old but a solid machine.


Real Men Use Linux

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#65 2020-08-09 03:31:30

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

I've done it, you should have no problem. Use the Arch wiki Intel fix if you experience screen tearing...

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/in … cs#Tearing

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#66 2020-08-09 08:56:14

brogild
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

hhh wrote:

BTW, is there a set of apps that you often run simultaneously that are RAM heavy and might cause swap to be used? Is there a performance hit when swap starts up, lagging or screen artifacts or crashes or anything? If it's just that you see it in conky sucking up swap with no performance degradation, don't worry about it. It's linux working the way it should. In crude and inaccurate layman's terms, some RAM is being stored on another part of your hard drive temporarily...

It's usually after watching longish livestreams on Youtube and then I sleep the laptop, when I wake it up there is about 1.5Gb in swap which then continues to go up, indicating that the RAM is full and the memory usage has not reset itself.
I realise that this is quite heavy usage for a 3Gb machine, but the problem wasn't particularly apparent with Helium, restarting Firefox doesn't seem to help so I reboot the machine and swap is down to zero again. It may even be a problem with Firefox where I noticed a few other mild issues too, I've updated to ESR 68.11 recently so maybe that will change things.

rbh wrote:

Import stable lithium key

Thanks for the info. Any idea what might be causing the installer to hang after autoconfiguring the network? Unlike other issues with the installer, when this happens it's not possible to go back to the 'menu' and skip a stage, it's an actual crash so I have to reboot and start install again, skipping network setup altogether.

ETA: On adding those keys I discovered that the supplied terminal does not respond to a right click, so I couldn't paste into it, and Ctrl-V doesn't work either. Typing in worked ok after I corrected the unexpected caps 'BunsenLabs' in the second line you supplied. I also needed to install gnupgp first.

Last edited by brogild (2020-08-09 09:49:06)

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#67 2020-08-09 11:27:26

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

Any idea what might be causing the installer to hang after autoconfiguring the network?

For you, the installer hangs after configuring the network? It has been discussed, problems with Debian installer hanging during networkconfig...

This thread is one: Lithium installer network configuration issue

Sometimes, it's been misconfigured lan. Some has resolved it with cable connection direct to the router.
Sometimes it can be problem with linux drivers for proprieatary hw. Some has resolved it with adding usb nic wich has good linux support.

Our install cd/dvd, has a preceed with the adress to BL repos, hence  working internet connection is needed to get full installation.

ETA: On adding those keys I discovered that the supplied terminal does not respond to a right click,

I do not know if you installed with 32 or 64 bit iso. On 64 bit iso, default terminal is lxterminal, which with right click on mouse, gives an menu with options to configure, copy and paste etc.
On 32 bit iso, default terminal is rxvt-unicode. You can mark terminal text with mouse and use shortcuts to copy/paste

so I couldn't paste into it, and Ctrl-V doesn't work either.

Lxterminal, use keys Shift+Ctrl+c for copy, Shift+Ctrl+v for paste
Rxvt-unicode, use keys Ctrl+Alt+c for copy, Ctrl+Alt+v for paste
Probabley it is possible to change keys, but those are the defaults.

Typing in worked ok after I corrected the unexpected caps 'BunsenLabs' in the second line you supplied.

Funny, works ok here. If you browse https://ddl.bunsenlabs.org/ddl/ (redirects to https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/ddl), you will see, it is not mine own speelling...

Last edited by rbh (2020-08-09 11:29:00)


// Regards rbh

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#68 2020-08-09 19:50:20

brogild
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

rbh wrote:

For you, the installer hangs after configuring the network? It has been discussed, problems with Debian installer hanging during networkconfig...

This thread is one: Lithium installer network configuration issue

Sometimes, it's been misconfigured lan. Some has resolved it with cable connection direct to the router.
Sometimes it can be problem with linux drivers for proprieatary hw. Some has resolved it with adding usb nic wich has good linux support.

Our install cd/dvd, has a preceed with the adress to BL repos, hence  working internet connection is needed to get full installation.

It's just this 32bit version, the 64 bit version detects network fine. To hone in a bit on the issue, it seems to hang on IPv6 autodetection, IPv4 seems to go smoothly as it zips by very fast

ETA: On adding those keys I discovered that the supplied terminal does not respond to a right click,

I do not know if you installed with 32 or 64 bit iso. On 64 bit iso, default terminal is lxterminal, which with right click on mouse, gives an menu with options to configure, copy and paste etc.
On 32 bit iso, default terminal is rxvt-unicode. You can mark terminal text with mouse and use shortcuts to copy/paste

so I couldn't paste into it, and Ctrl-V doesn't work either.

Lxterminal, use keys Shift+Ctrl+c for copy, Shift+Ctrl+v for paste
Rxvt-unicode, use keys Ctrl+Alt+c for copy, Ctrl+Alt+v for paste
Probabley it is possible to change keys, but those are the defaults.

Thanks for these tips, I assumed that Ctrl-V was standard, but will use the above ones from now on. I was using the 32bit version and cannot get a menu with right-click, presumably this is standard behaviour for that particular terminal?

ETA: Just tried the most recent 64 bit version and I'm having the same network detection problem (on two different machines, so probably not a driver issue). I don't recall seeing this before so am going to try Helium again to see if this is specific to Lithium for me.

Last edited by brogild (2020-08-09 20:35:25)

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#69 2020-08-09 22:13:02

hhh
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

@brogild, please open a new support thread for this issue in Bug Reports. Thanks for testing BunsenLabs!

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#70 2020-08-09 23:09:31

brogild
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

I've pretty much solved this as far as is possible, it turns out that this problem is confined to Lithium and the answer is contained within the thread that rbh linked to, ie to disable  IPv6 at the installer grub menu. Everything goes fine after that.

That thread will suffice as a support thread for this issue, thanks to all who chipped in.

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#71 2020-08-10 02:43:11

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,308
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Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

I'll also add a note about the ipv6 issue to the Lithium release notes.
It's a Debian Installer issue, not BunsenLabs, but it might save some people some time. smile
And thanks to @cog for finding the fix, and to @brogild for applying it to this case.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#72 2020-08-10 11:40:35

brogild
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

I still had to manually add the 'kelaino' repository for the 32bit version (and gnupg to make that work). Presumably it contains your own tweaks that make this build possible and without that I couldn't install gnomempv (for instance) from the system menu.
Due to your input above, and help with how to paste into the terminal, this has been fairly easy.

Thanks for the work you've put into this, I've always been interested in leaner builds, which is why I ended up with BL I suppose, even if it means trying out 32bit.

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#73 2020-08-10 12:59:29

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

I still had to manually add the 'kelaino' repository for the 32bit version (and gnupg to make that work).

Development versions, has repository on https://kelaino.bunsenlabs.org/~johnraff/*.
Stable BunsenLabs version has repository on http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian/*.

If you have installed from stable release: lithium-1-cd-i386.hybrid.iso or later, you should NOT add 'kelaino' repository!

If you have an working internet connection, repositorys from Bunsenlabs will be in file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/

They who have have installed from development/release candidat iso, should change over from keliano repos to pkg.bunsenlabs!

If ever in doubt about which repo to download from, check out info on https://www.bunsenlabs.org/repositories.html.

I advice you to read throug the information on https://www.bunsenlabs.org/ and  linked page: [STABLE RELEASE] BunsenLabs Lithium Official ISOs

Presumably it contains your own tweaks that make this build possible and without that I couldn't install gnomempv (for instance) from the system menu.

No! Keliano repo and pkg.bunsenlab repo should be the same now. But, new changes to bunsenlabs, wil only be uploaded to pkg.bunsenlab.
I and one other user have encountered problem installing mhwaveedit, from the System menu. No one else has experienced that. That seems to be a bug under some conditions.
I have no problem to install mhwaveedit in synaptic or in terminal.
If you can not install from System Menu bit in terminal/synaptic, you have encounterd the same bug.

I've always been interested in leaner builds, which is why I ended up with BL I suppose, even if it means trying out 32bit.

With 3 GB ram and 64 bit capable cpu, I myself would go for 64 bit installation. With 500 MB to 1 GB, I have chosen 32 bit installation...


// Regards rbh

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#74 2020-08-10 13:20:07

brogild
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 52

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

It was on the stable 32bit build that gnomempv wouldn't install from the system menu (it worked fine in the 64bit version). After adding the kelaino repository it worked so I assumed this had done the trick - from your explanation here it seems it wasn't that and is still a mystery.
I 'added' it using the terminal commands supplied above, but it still didn't appear in the sources list, so it seems the system rejected it anyway as it was the stable version.

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#75 2020-08-10 14:13:08

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 661

Re: [FINISHED] BunsenLabs Lithium 32 bit Release Candidate iso available

brogild wrote:

It was on the stable 32bit build that gnomempv wouldn't install from the system menu (it worked fine in the 64bit version). After adding the kelaino repository it worked so I assumed this had done the trick

gnome-mpv, is not an Bunsen-Labs package. It is an Debian package Here a list of all Bunsen Labs packages

I 'added' it using the terminal commands supplied above, but it still didn't appear in the sources list,

There seems to bee some linguistic confusion.
Did you installed gnome-mpv in terminal with command "apt install gnome-mpv"? Did the program not appear on the jgmenu? Can you start it from terminal?

Or... did you paste "deb https://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian/ lithium main" into the terminal?

Debian sources is listed in /etc/apt/sources.list, Bunsenlabs repos is default listed in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list. You must edit your source file and use correct repositorys, listed on https://www.bunsenlabs.org/repositories.html

so it seems the system rejected it anyway as it was the stable version.

This I do not understand at all.


// Regards rbh

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