The i386 CD iso

hhh · 2020-06-11 05:43:55

Any issues with the CD ISO? We've discussed Paper theme and a few other issues, but things are on track?

johnraff · 2020-06-11 07:34:56

I was working on the CD iso yesterday and will get back to it now RC3>OR is almost ready to go (one more last build).

Switching to Paper won't just be a matter of switching the package list though - the user config will have to be changed to use it, meaning a CD version of bunsen-configs or something...

Once I've got the latest tweaks from the amd64 configs merged in (of course Secure Boot won't be part of it), I'll do a trial build of the CD iso, just to see how many more MB need to be shaved off.

But in the long term, there could well be something to be said for a bunsen-configs-lite package, which users can install instead of bunsen-configs, with a bundle of settings (not just the icon theme) aimed at low-end machines? Once the mechanism is built, anything could be added later.

johnraff · 2020-06-11 07:37:47

PS if you have any CD tweaks in mind that would lighten the system up, please post.
Both in iso size and system load (daemons etc).

hhh · 2020-06-12 04:08:33

Remove clip-it, maybe remove pulseaudio.

johnraff · 2020-06-12 05:12:43

hhh wrote:

Remove clip-it, maybe remove pulseaudio.

Does clipit use that much in resources?
Will pnmixer work without pulseaudio?

hhh · 2020-06-12 22:49:07

Every applet uses ~20-40mb. I have no idea how much pulse-audio uses. It's going to be adding little things together that will shave RAM. ssh, a11y, nm-applet (install ceni instead for an ncurses GUI)... gvfs cuts a lot of RAM. Just throwing ideas out, if we leave everything in we can still make a "Lean RAM Tweaks" thread.

Last edited by hhh (2020-06-12 22:50:50)

hhh · 2020-06-13 02:59:15

I did a little test. Pulse was already removed, but default login RAM after that was about 380 for me, and over 400 after opening any GUI, even jgmenu.

sudo apt purge --autoremove clipit xfce4-power-manager openssh-agent at-spi2*

I think that's right. Then, since ceni is now in debian...

sudo apt install ceni && sudo apt purge --autoremove network-manager-gnome lightdm* light-locker

I switched to Adwaita icon theme. Reboot for the win. 215 running xfce4-screenshooter...

-edit- I checked, removing pulseaudio seems to make no difference on RAM usage. Desktop idle after opening and closing both Firefox and also Thunar (which enables gvfs and tumblerd) was under 245mb. I say that's very good for what is still a pretty complete desktop.

Last edited by hhh (2020-06-13 03:35:18)

johnraff · 2020-06-13 04:13:33

All good suggestions IMO. Icons, Papirus>Paper we definitely need to do. But even drop to Adwaita? Did it look acceptable to you? I'll try it anyway.

OK if we trim this and that utility from the package list, then I guess if we ship tweaked user configs too then it might be sensibly doable.

I ran off a trial CD iso, still with Papirus, and was not thrilled to find it came to ~790MB, even with all the tweaks and hacks that we had in Helium. I was hoping it would be a bit closer to 700.

I opened it up and compared with Helium and yes pretty much everything's a bit bigger in the Buster version, out of our control, so we'll just have to slash more fiercely to get it on that disk. Both the "outside" stuff (installer, boot files etc) and the installed system (the squashfs file) are bigger.

One thing that came up is fonts-noto seem much chubbier now. Drop mousepad and just use nano in a terminal? Otherwise a general drastic cutdown of the package list. It'll be a pretty spartan system but as long as regular i386 users can easily reinstall what they need it might be usable. Keep all the CLI tools and utilities.

Oh yes, found a bug with exo-utils on i386: we need to add libexo-1-0 to the package list. They seem to have fixed it for 64bit but it probably wouldn't hurt to have it in our amd64 list too.

Here's the bloated-out CD iso: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e_7ZmP … sp=sharing
sha256: 4ca1c90b5e14bd9c4dfed4d47090b2e70a6399027d0de8c1d0f784eae8cb50dd

Last edited by johnraff (2020-06-13 04:15:57)

hhh · 2020-06-13 04:21:38

Paper is nearly as light as Adwaita, and it's a bit prettier, let's use that theme.

I hadn't considered fonts nor a GUI Editor having any effect on RAM or disk space, so I say use your best judgement.

So the bigger issue is trimming the desktop install to 700mb? Please post the current package list for the CD, I need to see what's up there.

hhh · 2020-06-13 04:29:15

Access denied with the link you gave, and I use Gmail. Google sent a confirmation code (twice, I think) but I haven't received it. What a time to be alive.

Technology sucks!

hhh · 2020-06-13 04:41:59

@John, check sharing on that file. I'm logged into Drive now and I still am getting an "Access Denied" message.

johnraff · 2020-06-13 05:58:39

^Sorry - I think that's got it now.

Here's the package list I used for that build:

alsa-utils
amd64-microcode
anacron
apt-transport-https
arandr
at-spi2-core
bash-completion
btrfs-progs
chntpw
clipit
compton
conky-all
cpufrequtils
cryptsetup
curl
crda
dbus-x11
dmz-cursor-theme
dosfstools
efibootmgr
eject
evince
f2fs-tools
fbxkb
file-roller
firefox-esr
firmware-b43-installer
firmware-b43legacy-installer
firmware-linux
firmware-realtek
firmware-iwlwifi
fonts-noto
fonts-noto-mono
fonts-inconsolata
fuse
galculator
galternatives
gddrescue
gdebi
gigolo
gmrun
gnome-keyring
gparted
gsimplecal
gtk2-engines-pixbuf
gvfs
gvfs-backends
gvfs-fuse
hardinfo
haveged
hdparm
hddtemp
hexchat
hfsprogs
htop
hwdata
i965-va-driver
intel-microcode
inxi
jgmenu
lame
less
libinput-tools
libpam-gnome-keyring
libnotify-bin
libqt5svg5
lightdm
lightdm-gtk-greeter
lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
light-locker
locales
lsb-release
lshw
lvm2
lxappearance
mlocate
modemmanager
mousepad
mpv
network-manager
network-manager-gnome
nitrogen
ntfs-3g
ntp
obconf
openbox
openssh-client
p7zip-full
papirus-icon-theme
pavucontrol
pciutils
pcmciautils
pnmixer
policykit-1
policykit-1-gnome
pulseaudio
python
python-keybinder
python-notify
python-xdg
qt5-style-plugins
ristretto
rfkill
rsync
rxvt-unicode
scrot
smartmontools
suckless-tools
sudo
synaptic
thunar
thunar-archive-plugin
thunar-gtkhash
thunar-volman
tint2
tumbler
unar
unrar
unzip
update-inetd
usb-modeswitch
usbutils
user-setup
uuid-runtime
va-driver-all
vdpau-va-driver
wireless-tools
xbindkeys
xcape
xdg-user-dirs
xdg-utils
xfce4-notifyd
xfce4-power-manager
xfce4-screenshooter
xfsprogs
xinput
xorg
xserver-xorg-input-all
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
xserver-xorg-input-evdev
xserver-xorg-input-wacom
xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-video-intel
xserver-xorg-video-qxl
xsel
xz-utils
yad
zip
bunsen-common
bunsen-configs
bunsen-configs-pulse
bunsen-conky
bunsen-docs
bunsen-exit
bunsen-fortune
bunsen-images
bunsen-keyring
bunsen-os-release
bunsen-papirus-icon-theme
bunsen-pipemenus
bunsen-themes
bunsen-thunar
bunsen-utilities
bunsen-welcome

I'm going to pick open the squashfs and see if there's any obvious villain. Maybe deleting some documentation would help. Go back to reading up on reducing the live-build iso, maybe some more tweaks...

hhh · 2020-06-13 06:21:33

So, at first glance, what I think could be done post-install by the user, so not installed on the CD...

at-spi2-core
clipit
compton
gvfs-backends
gvfs-fuse (no idea if those two are removable, I'm just brainstorming)
hexchat
lightdm/light-locker (too extreme to omit, though, unless space is at an absolute premium)
network-manager-gnome (replace with ceni)
openssh-client
papirus-icon-theme/bunsen-papirus (replace with paper)
tumbler (if RAM is the issue, otherwise leave it)
xfce4-power-manager
xfce4-screenshooter

Last edited by hhh (2020-06-13 06:22:38)

johnraff · 2020-06-13 06:53:47

^We can certainly make candy like compton and utilities like hexchat post-install options, but some of the others look to me like core functions that might cause new users grief to be without.

at-spi2-core ... accessibility. Irrelevant for most, vital for those who need it.

How simple is it to go back to network-manager from ceni (I've never used it), and how much smaller is ceni?

Right off, I'd go along with removing these, anyway:

compton
hexchat
openssh-client
papirus-icon-theme
tumbler
xfce4-screenshooter

But there should be more.

I'd add mousepad to the list for a start, since we're getting down to the bone here. Would nano in a terminal be too frightening for new users?

One advantage of using Adwaita by default (even though Paper is much nicer) is that dependencies force us to have it installed anyway.

The big issue right now is getting the file small enough to fit on a CD, but of course a low-RAM system is probably very desirable for any machine that's going to install i386.

As long as returning to the standard BL setup post-install is simple for those who want it.

nobody · 2020-06-13 08:47:32

johnraff wrote:

How simple is it to go back to network-manager from ceni (I've never used it), and how much smaller is ceni?

I'm against dropping NM. ceni is barely maintained, and it's a big unknown for me how it would deal with e.g. IPv6 networks (like I am on right now). You likely wouldn't get privacy extensions , SLAAC vs DHCPv6 not without manually tuning sysctl parameters. There'S a reason NM is the de-facto standard on desktop Linux; it brings a lot of features and comfort. Networking is so essential nowadays; and if people would like to connect to VPNs, ceni doesn't make that easier, but NM does.

johnraff · 2020-06-13 09:37:20

this discussion has moved from the RC iso to tweaks that could be made to the i386 CD iso to:
1) get it to fit in the 700MB size limit
2) use fewer system resources than standard BL, to suit the older machines it's likely to be used on
(Actually, it should be split to a separate thread.)

That said, I wouldn't likely vote for a substitution that users would have to invest time and energy into backing out of post-install, if they wanted to return to default. More like, missing pieces they can just plug in.

So, unless ceni a) made a big reduction in installed size and b) was easy to switch back to network-manager, then I'd agree with you anyway.

hhh · 2020-06-13 13:30:04

Agreed, leave nm-applet and at-spi* in the package list, they're core items.

hhh · 2020-06-13 16:08:56

@John, we'll need a CD test build to see what's going on, I think.

johnraff · 2020-06-14 00:31:59

hhh wrote:

@John, we'll need a CD test build to see what's going on, I think.

I posted one a couple of days ago.

johnraff wrote:

Here's the bloated-out CD iso: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e_7ZmP … sp=sharing
sha256: 4ca1c90b5e14bd9c4dfed4d47090b2e70a6399027d0de8c1d0f784eae8cb50dd

johnraff · 2020-06-14 01:46:28

hhh wrote:

Access denied with the link you gave, and I use Gmail. Google sent a confirmation code (twice, I think) but I haven't received it. What a time to be alive.
Technology sucks!

I put that link sharing on "Public" so you've probably got it by now.
Google sent me access permission request emails generated by your attempts to download, so I could have granted just you permission.

But those emails arrived yesterday, a day late, after I'd already set the perms to Public!
Efficiency!

#1 2020-06-11 05:43:55

The i386 CD iso

#2 2020-06-11 07:34:56

Re: The i386 CD iso

#3 2020-06-11 07:37:47

Re: The i386 CD iso

#4 2020-06-12 04:08:33

Re: The i386 CD iso

#5 2020-06-12 05:12:43

Re: The i386 CD iso

#6 2020-06-12 22:49:07

Re: The i386 CD iso

#7 2020-06-13 02:59:15

Re: The i386 CD iso

#8 2020-06-13 04:13:33

Re: The i386 CD iso

#9 2020-06-13 04:21:38

Re: The i386 CD iso

#10 2020-06-13 04:29:15

Re: The i386 CD iso

#11 2020-06-13 04:41:59

Re: The i386 CD iso

#12 2020-06-13 05:58:39

Re: The i386 CD iso

#13 2020-06-13 06:21:33

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#14 2020-06-13 06:53:47

Re: The i386 CD iso

#15 2020-06-13 08:47:32

Re: The i386 CD iso

#16 2020-06-13 09:37:20

Re: The i386 CD iso

#17 2020-06-13 13:30:04

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#18 2020-06-13 16:08:56

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#19 2020-06-14 00:31:59

Re: The i386 CD iso

#20 2020-06-14 01:46:28

Re: The i386 CD iso

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