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#1 2015-11-07 06:47:06

nod-a1
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From: Gothenburg
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 31
Website

UEFI Frustration

I am frustrated and very angry with the scripts being tossed around the debian community. I want my OS to work for me, not me for it. I prefer manual operation but I am tired of playing around with scripts when everything is simple file/copy/paste of bits and binary sequences of 1 and 0.

Now I am trying to get this manual override done with my laptop to get bunsenlabs booting into the UEFI firmware. And I am about to cut my machine open with a razor to rewire the hardware to feed me 240v into my body.

I am going to drink some coffe.


sharp, clarity, focus, control

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#2 2015-11-07 07:05:30

gako
Member
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 241

Re: UEFI Frustration

"Working for it" is how you learn and that's what the Linux spirit is all about.

I'm not sure what you mean by binary sequences of 1 & 0 but I've personally never used binary
to get my system to boot. Geesh, that wouldn't be simple at  all smile

Why don't you post in the help section I'm sure someone would be able to get you straightened out.

The Debian forums are pretty darn friendly and helpful too.

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#3 2015-11-07 08:47:11

nobody0
Disabled account
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: UEFI Frustration

nod-a1 wrote:

...when everything is simple file/copy/paste...

Something I really like, this "simple file/copy/paste"--Linux is all about files and is an extension-less system.

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#4 2015-11-07 10:17:49

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: UEFI Frustration

nod-a1 wrote:

I want my OS to work for me, not me for it. I prefer manual operation but I am tired of playing around with scripts when everything is simple file/copy/paste of bits and binary sequences of 1 and 0.

You should use Arch wink

See my signature for UEFI workarounds.

The Debian live ISO upon which the BunsenLabs rc1 is based is not UEFI capable (yet).

For UEFI systems, the recommended approach is to use a Debian netinstall ISO image [1] and uncheck all the boxes in the tasksel section then download and run johnraff's installation script [2] after booting into the new CLI-only system.

[1] http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unoff … 64/iso-cd/
[2] https://github.com/BunsenLabs/bunsen-netinstall & http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=39656


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#5 2015-11-07 12:28:08

Horizon_Brave
Operating System: Linux-Nettrix
Registered: 2015-10-18
Posts: 1,473

Re: UEFI Frustration

nod-a1 wrote:

I am going to drink some coffe.

I can't offer much... but for me when my brain is stopped up, and i'm making a muck of things, stopping, getting some coffee or tea and some quiet is a great remedy for many issues.Puts me back in my zen/Jedi  state.


"I have not failed, I have found 10,000 ways that will not work" -Edison

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#6 2015-11-07 12:31:32

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,909
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Re: UEFI Frustration

^ 'xcept if you make an unsharp, unclear, unfocused and uncontroled post before you drink the coffee, which (incl. all accumulated reactions) then jumps back at you after you drank it...

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#7 2015-11-07 13:12:13

eight.bit.al
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From: The top of the World
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 294
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Re: UEFI Frustration

Thanks for sharing.  smile

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#8 2015-11-07 16:02:47

Panda
Member
Registered: 2015-10-30
Posts: 262

Re: UEFI Frustration

+1 @Horizon_Brave

Yep! Put it down, walk away, get a new perspective and come back to it later.  wink

Life's too short to sweat the small stuff!.. Plus 240v can spoil your whole day.   tongue


“Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery and today a gift...
That's why they call it the present"

― Master Oogway

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#9 2015-11-07 17:02:52

C#Coder4ever
BL Keyboard Troll
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 261

Re: UEFI Frustration

don't use uefi, problem solved.

Unless you got one of those laptops that are uefi only. Then you'll want to install BunsenLabs the hard way, by netinstall.


Peripheral, SBC, and router addict lmao
Keeb & SSD Discussions | GitLab

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#10 2015-11-07 21:07:50

Horizon_Brave
Operating System: Linux-Nettrix
Registered: 2015-10-18
Posts: 1,473

Re: UEFI Frustration

C#Coder4ever wrote:

don't use uefi, problem solved.

Unless you got one of those laptops that are uefi only. Then you'll want to install BunsenLabs the hard way, by netinstall.

lol, avoid the problem as long as possible, instead of trying to find out how to fix it? That's my method! big_smile


"I have not failed, I have found 10,000 ways that will not work" -Edison

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#11 2015-11-07 22:21:11

C#Coder4ever
BL Keyboard Troll
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 261

Re: UEFI Frustration

Horizon_Brave wrote:
C#Coder4ever wrote:

don't use uefi, problem solved.

Unless you got one of those laptops that are uefi only. Then you'll want to install BunsenLabs the hard way, by netinstall.

lol, avoid the problem as long as possible, instead of trying to find out how to fix it? That's my method! big_smile

I already figured out how to fix it, but if I can avoid it, I'd rather avoid it.

and the way to fix it was as I described, netinstall it.


Peripheral, SBC, and router addict lmao
Keeb & SSD Discussions | GitLab

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#12 2015-11-08 02:13:05

nod-a1
Member
From: Gothenburg
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 31
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

I spent a long time with a sharp knife and not to far away I had my hard reset hammer trying to nail this one, I reached max pain and basically focused on reaching my goal instead of solving the issue.

- Now I understand the problem and as many already know, the american MS seem to abuse its software position towards the european GNU/Linux. Feodorian and Ubunto have apparently already payed MS to by-pass the lock-down. I will try to solve the issue with the Arch-linux solution, the distribution have different tools but I think I could use it to get BL working in UEFI mod aswell.


sharp, clarity, focus, control

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#13 2015-11-08 02:17:01

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

nod-a1 wrote:

the american MS seem to abuse its software position towards the european GNU/Linux. Feodorian and Ubunto have apparently already payed MS to by-pass the lock-down

You can boot BunsenLabs with Secure Boot enabled by following the steps in this guide (also in my signature):
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=393

You will need to convert the system to UEFI first:
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=391

/Moved to System Administration


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#14 2015-11-08 07:58:49

nobody0
Disabled account
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: UEFI Frustration

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
nod-a1 wrote:

the american MS seem to abuse its software position towards the european GNU/Linux. Feodorian and Ubunto have apparently already payed MS to by-pass the lock-down

You can boot BunsenLabs with Secure Boot enabled by following the steps in this guide (also in my signature):
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=393

You will need to convert the system to UEFI first:
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=391

/Moved to System Administration

Would you be using a live iso to do the commands in those two links?
Would a live iso boot in with 'secure boot' enabled?

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#15 2015-11-08 09:30:09

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: UEFI Frustration

ostrolek wrote:

Would you be using a live iso to do the commands in those two links?

No, the commands can be run from the installed system but the EFI system partition would have to be created from the live environment if the disk was full and the root partition needed to be resized.

ostrolek wrote:

Would a live iso boot in with 'secure boot' enabled?

The Debian live ISO images do not currently support UEFI or (by extension) Secure Boot.

Although the live ISO image is likely to gain UEFI support in future, the licence required to use Secure Boot is in violation of the Debian Free Software Guidelines [1] and so will never be supported in Debian.

Live ISO images from Arch, *buntu, Fedora and OpenSUSE will work with Secure Boot enabled.

[1] https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines


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#16 2015-11-08 09:52:02

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: UEFI Frustration

^ For sometime, I'm thinking of buying a new laptop, mine is getting old. Not interested in Windows at all, but if it is there without a price for it, I'd buy one with Windows, otherwise MS-less. There are laptops without MS blackmail, but might be Uefi. So, as you say, I'd have to install Arch, *buntu first to get an installed system in and then do the commands and install Debian?

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#17 2015-11-08 09:56:29

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

ostrolek wrote:

I'd have to install Arch, *buntu first to get an installed system in and then do the commands and install Debian?

No, just install a Debian system in UEFI mode with Secure Boot disabled using a netinstall ISO image then boot into the installed system, follow the steps in my guide and reboot with Secure Boot enabled.

Simples.
smile


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#18 2015-11-08 10:20:30

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: UEFI Frustration

^ True!
The netinstall, I forgot that. smile

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#19 2015-11-08 17:01:25

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,315
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Re: UEFI Frustration

@johnraff's netinstall is not hard at all, it just requires using the command line, so it's not as easy as using our or Debian's Live ISOs, which just require you to answer some questions and hit Tab/Enter. It used to be a bit time and resource consuming as it had to install build-essential and other tools and build all the Bunsen packages from source, but that's no longer the case now that we have our own repository. Look at us, all professional-like. monkey

It's actually the software that builds the Live ISOs, live-build, that doesn't support EFI booting. A wishlist bug was opened for this feature by Raphael Hertzog (Debian developer and Kali Linux core developer) in 2013 and the Debian Wiki page on UEFI states that "Hopefully the debian-live developers will add this important feature soon", but still no joy.

@HoaS, I wasn't aware of the licensing issue, but what did you mean by EFI never being supported in Debian? It's currently supported (isn't it?), just not yet by live-build, and I assume it will eventually have to be supported as BIOS gradually gets fazed out unless another boot method besides EFI comes along.

I've done a LOT of research into adding EFI support for our ISO releases, but since I don't personally have any hardware to test it on, it doesn't make sense for me to invest hours trying to implement hacks to live-build. If you look at the Wiki page I linked, supporting both BIOS and EFI boot methods on all the available hardware with their buggy implementations of EFI is VERY difficult.

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#20 2015-11-08 17:21:17

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,315
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

nod-a1 wrote:

the american MS seem to abuse its software position towards the european GNU/Linux. Feodorian and Ubunto have apparently already payed MS to by-pass the lock-down.

Lol, I don't think UEFI is an American conspiracy, and I don't think GNU/Linux is European (Stallman was born in New York and went to Harvard and M.I.T. and Torvalds has lived in California, where The Linux Kernel Organization is based, for years and became a U.S. citizen in 2010)...
http://www.uefi.org/faq
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu.html
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/faq
https://www.kernel.org/category/about.html

Why don't you tell us what laptop you're working with instead of slashing, smashing and killing it with fire?

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#21 2015-11-08 18:36:04

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

hhh wrote:

@HoaS, I wasn't aware of the licensing issue, but what did you mean by EFI never being supported in Debian? It's currently supported (isn't it?), just not yet by live-build, and I assume it will eventually have to be supported as BIOS gradually gets fazed out unless another boot method besides EFI comes along.

Yes, the Debian live ISO images should support UEFI soon (there are problems with xorriso, I think [1]) and the netinstall ISO images already support UEFI on 32-bit systems, 64-bit systems and even 64-bit systems with 32-bit UEFI firmware.

The licensing conflict to which I was referring was in respect of Secure Boot.

Check the link in my signature for a very easily-implemented solution to Secure Boot.
wink

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=731709


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#22 2015-11-08 18:38:29

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: UEFI Frustration

hhh wrote:

If you look at the Wiki page I linked, supporting both BIOS and EFI boot methods on all the available hardware with their buggy implementations of EFI is VERY difficult.

My systems boot in both UEFI & non-UEFI modes big_smile

The Arch live ISO can also do this by using syslinux -- I will look into this further when I have a moment.


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#23 2015-11-08 18:43:48

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,315
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your help here in all things UEFI. Like I said, I have no UEFI hardware and no experience with it.

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#24 2015-11-08 19:49:49

nobody0
Disabled account
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: UEFI Frustration

I forgot about the Debian netinstall and also forgot about this http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 56#p436956 then also had a look here, http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 75#p439675 You'd notice in the video that Systemback had added two folders, i.e, boot and EFI (between 3.08 - 3.16 mins), which are not BL RC1 iso. Inside_Bunsen_Labs.jpg, So, if those folders are added to the BL iso, it might boot/installed in an UEFI system, I suppose.

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#25 2016-01-30 01:29:14

spacex
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From: Norway
Registered: 2015-12-15
Posts: 66
Website

Re: UEFI Frustration

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Although the live ISO image is likely to gain UEFI support in future

The Official Debian live ISO's will probably get it sometime soon, trough live-wrapper. But live-build isn't being developed anymore, so live-build will not support it directly anytime soon.

I see that Debian are looking for someone to take charge of developing live-build, but until then, we will probably have to first build the ISO's and then hack them and add uefi-support manually. Or of course, hack live-build directly. But me for one are waiting it out.

I know that Kali has a fork of live-build with uefi-support, at least I've heard rumours about it. Perhaps I should have a look at that. Been to lazy, as I'm able to convert to UEFI postinstall myself. But for those with pc's without legacy support, that isn't a solution. They have to do the netinstalls...

Perhaps HoaS could do us all a favour and take charge of live-build? Just talk to Ben Armstrong. Come on, you are more than competent. It's right up in your alley. Pleeeease. No pressure  devil

Last edited by spacex (2016-01-30 01:30:02)


Regards Spacex(EW)

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