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#1 2019-02-04 07:56:01

sagsaw
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Registered: 2018-10-15
Posts: 10

LTS version

Will Bunsenlabs Release have LTS for 5 years?

How can it sync or link with Debian LTS?

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#2 2019-02-04 08:06:00

damo
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Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 4,827

Re: LTS version

Bunsenlabs is based on Debian Stable, so whatever LTS Debian has will be supported: in the case of Stretch it is scheduled to be to June 2022 https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/. If you stay with Stretch it will become old-stable.

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using

Last edited by damo (2019-02-04 08:11:29)


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#3 2019-02-04 11:18:44

earlybird
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Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 676
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Re: LTS version

As damo said, you will be able to 'ride' a stable BL release over the life cycle Debian is supporting. That means that after a release, you'll be able to use it as 'stable' for about 2 years and then another 2 years during the sunset period as the 'oldstable' release, if it is adopted by Debian as a LTS release (see the link damo posted).

All Debian releases since squeeze were adopted as LTS releases by Debian volunteers, though note that this kind of long life cycle is not guaranteed. Meaning, that if Debian decides it doesn't have the resources to e.g. support a Stretch LTS release, there will be no LTS release.

So all in all, the life time of recent Debian releases may be between 2 and 4 years. This means that each BL release likely has a life time of 4 years.

If you're looking for guaranteed support life cycles of more than 2-4 years, then you should use CentOS or RHEL which receives 5.5 years of guaranteed updates (https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata) or OpenSuSE Leap with 3 years of guaranteed updates (https://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime) or Ubuntu LTS for 5 years of guaranteed updates.

All in all, the distro with the longest life cycle is pretty much CentOS. Debian's LTS release is very weak both in scope and quality when compared to the offerings of these commercial actors. It's just a few security updates for the base system and represents more of a sunset period than an extended life span.

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#4 2019-02-04 12:33:40

sagsaw
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Registered: 2018-10-15
Posts: 10

Re: LTS version

ok understood ... but then why is Bunsenlabs not based on UBUNTU or CENTOS?

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#5 2019-02-04 13:30:44

earlybird
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Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 676
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Re: LTS version

sagsaw wrote:

ok understood ... but then why is Bunsenlabs not based on UBUNTU or CENTOS?

a. Because we're in the tradition of #! which was based on Debian Stable (in its last incarnation – it used to be based on Ubuntu).

b. BL's objective is not to provide a LTS distro, its objective is to provide a desktop based around Openbox.

c. In this context, BL doesn't have the resources to provide true LTS support. All BL packages for old releases like Hydrogen, unless something major comes up, will stop being developed and bugfixed and development will continue with the next Debian release.

d. LTS has its greatest strong points on the server. 2 years of obsolete software is already pushing it on desktop OS when the answer to common graphics/audio/peripheral problems is 'update your kernel' or 'update your libmesa' or 'use Debian backports'. All stacks and applications that support the core desktop experience are moving faster than Debian releases already. We like to try something new too in a while.

(This is just my interpretation and not me speaking for all BL project members.)

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#6 2019-02-04 14:16:04

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 625

Re: LTS version

sagsaw wrote:

ok understood ... but then why is Bunsenlabs not based on UBUNTU or CENTOS?

I would offer you a counter question: please explain why should Bunsenlabs be based on UBUNTU or CENTOS?


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#7 2019-02-04 20:52:40

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,715

Re: LTS version

Well Ubuntu has snaps. And Centos ..., huge pain, but a similar openbox environment is quite possible. Why not bunsenlabs-mint? (I'am assuming that would annoy even more people)

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2019-02-04 20:58:02)

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#8 2019-02-04 21:08:40

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 625

Re: LTS version

brontosaurusrex wrote:

(I'am assuming that would annoy even more people)

big_smile big_smile


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#9 2019-02-04 22:00:05

MALsPa
Member
From: albuquerque
Registered: 2016-06-20
Posts: 103

Re: LTS version

2-3 years is enough LTS for me. Lol, I'm still running Hydrogen/Deuterium, but I wouldn't want to keep it for 5 years. Let's not have BL switch to Ubuntu or CentOS base!

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#10 2019-02-04 23:04:04

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 625

Re: LTS version

LTS or not to LTS, that is the question ...?

Well, in personal experience, for servers - computers which has to have constant availability and many people use it randomly - I highly prefer as long LTS release as possible.

On everyday laptop, I happily drive debian-sid. For this I have had only once or twice fear of breaking it with 'update' and 'dist-upgrade' in 10 years; I was very careful not to 'apt-get update' by mistake. Otherwise, I do update&&dist-upgrade on almost daily basis.

Of course, the moral of the story is: if it is critical, and if plenty of people depends on runing OS, than by all means, go ro LTS release.  wink

IMHO, I agree with MALsPa: don't ever touch Ubuntu/Centos with BL. Bl is just fine and serves purpose as it is.


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#11 2019-02-05 00:03:35

hhh
That's it!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 7,230
Website

Re: LTS version

earlybird wrote:
sagsaw wrote:

ok understood ... but then why is Bunsenlabs not based on UBUNTU or CENTOS?

a. Because we're in the tradition of #! which was based on Debian Stable (in its last incarnation – it used to be based on Ubuntu).

And as to why corenominal switched his base from Ubuntu to Debian stable, it wasn't a community decision, IIRC. He just found Debian to have a more stable upgrade path and more stability in general, and rightly so IMO, though I believe the Ubuntu LTS upgrade path has become quite stable as long as you aren't adding random PPAs right and left.

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#12 2019-02-05 02:59:15

MsMattie
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 87

Re: LTS version

I use mainly three Linux distros - BunsenLabs and MX Linux which are Debian stable, and Xubuntu 18.04 which is LTS.

Xubuntu has more quirks and little problems arise, from updates or whatever.

Please do not change from Debian stable.


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#13 2019-02-05 03:23:59

Bearded_Blunder
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From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: LTS version

I'm with the stick with Debian stable brigade, even though it makes life difficult for us sysvinit/openrc rebels, per default being able to just fire off

sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y

with zero worries is pretty much the killer, and with Debian stable you can, or you can tell family that's how you update & still get less anguished support calls than having them on Windows with automatic updates.

Bunsen so far hasn't supported dist-upgrade to the next stable the way pure Debian does, but as a goal or project I'd rather see effort spent on achieving that than spent on an "LTS" version, or switching base distro,  or even a Devuan edition.

Just 32 & 64 bit plain Debian stable base seems plenty to support.  Leave those other editions to people who wish to fork Bunsen & support them.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#14 2019-02-05 12:23:58

sagsaw
Member
Registered: 2018-10-15
Posts: 10

Re: LTS version

Sorry to trigger all this but it enabled me to get a lot of insights on BunsenLabs as a newbie to Bunsenlabs.

UBUNTU CENTOS were just random names thrown in ...

DEBIAN STABLE IT IS for me too for Bunsenlabs.

I have been a debian user since the Debian 2.2 (Potato) but used Debian Sarge 3.0 and on Desktops and Servers in the place where I worked way back in 2002.

STABILITY was KEY.

But over the years, I feel we need to have best of both the worlds ...

Stable Linux Operating System but latest versions of most used softwares like Office Browser Mail client Chat FTP Messengers etc.

LXLE was on such distro which was always based on UBUNTU LTS but included uo to date software .

http://www.lxle.net/about/

Moroever it had everything out of the box what a DESKTOP OS required.

But as of today there is no word on its future.

Since 2010 I have been using LUBUNTU and it was also rock solid and stable.

But again LUBUNTU has now moved away from its basic promise of being a LEAN FAST OS and it also does not follow UBUNTU LTS 5 years.

Now coming to the 5 years debate ... I think UBUNTU has come up with point releases which keeps Kernel and some softwares updated. I think they have as of now 3 or 4 point releases per LTS.

I am at a point of decision as to what linux should run on my PCs home and office. Debian based? Ubuntu based?

One thing I am looking for is running LEAN DESKTOPS ... so Openbox or Openbox + LXDE is what I am looking for.

Am planning to use Bunsenlabs on one of my PC soon to test out.

Last edited by sagsaw (2019-02-05 12:25:21)

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#15 2019-02-05 12:41:23

Bearded_Blunder
Dodging A Bullet
From: Seat: seat0; vc7
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 730

Re: LTS version

Plenty of people track testing with BL to the extent there's usually a sticky & lots of info, that's probably the best compromise if you're after that sort of "with newer software" approach, testing never drops out of support so you get the next "until PCs die" years. Granted security fixes can sometimes lag behind stable, I'd put the stability of testing up against many other distro's "stable" releases though, and probably the speed of security fixes too.  Different for sid, security fixes there rely on upstream & maintainers packaging new versions.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...
If there's an obscure or silly way to break it, but you don't know what.. Just ask me

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#16 2019-02-06 06:33:38

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,573
Website

Re: LTS version

But over the years, I feel we need to have best of both the worlds ...
Stable Linux Operating System but latest versions of most used softwares like Office Browser Mail client Chat FTP Messengers etc.

that is a very, very old discussion, and the fact that you are bringing this up as your own idea makes it very hard for me to believe that you "have been a debian user since the Debian 2.2"... you certainly haven't been following developments & communication.

what you bring up is one of the reasons why most derivate distros (ubuntu...) are born.

so, do some research about it instead of asking others to reinvent the wheel.
_________________________

LXLE was on such distro which was always based on UBUNTU LTS but included uo to date software .
http://www.lxle.net/about/
Moroever it had everything out of the box what a DESKTOP OS required.
But as of today there is no word on its future.

you keep bringing up LXLE here on bunsenlabs forums.
why? i consider this a mild form of trolling. on how many other forums are you asking this question: "please make your distro more like LXLE"?
shouldn't you rather be posting on LXLE forums, trying to revive it? but no, that would actually mean taking the responsibility of putting your words into action.

Last edited by ohnonot (2019-02-06 06:36:59)

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#17 2019-02-06 09:21:45

MALsPa
Member
From: albuquerque
Registered: 2016-06-20
Posts: 103

Re: LTS version

sagsaw wrote:

LXLE was on such distro which was always based on UBUNTU LTS but included uo to date software .

http://www.lxle.net/about/

Moroever it had everything out of the box what a DESKTOP OS required.

But as of today there is no word on its future.

Since 2010 I have been using LUBUNTU and it was also rock solid and stable.

But again LUBUNTU has now moved away from its basic promise of being a LEAN FAST OS and it also does not follow UBUNTU LTS 5 years.

Ah. I saw some of your posts at the LXLE forums. LXLE doesn't have a 18.04 release, and Lubuntu doesn't follow the 5-year LTS plan, so you're looking around for something else. Does that kinda sum things up?

I'm not sure that there's any one distro out there now that meets all of your requirements. BunsenLabs is a good option, and because of "oldstable" and Debian LTS, you can get a good 4 years out of a BL release (as has been pointed out earlier in the thread), although that's not quite the same as a *Buntu LTS situation.

But... I have done a Debian netinstall, then added only Openbox. I did that because I was trying to create my own Stable + Openbox setup, along the lines of CrunchBang and BunsenLabs. Can't that same sort of thing be done with Ubuntu 18.04? See: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads

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#18 2019-02-06 12:15:49

sagsaw
Member
Registered: 2018-10-15
Posts: 10

Re: LTS version

Agreed I may be in more of a CINSUMER ONLY MINDSET right now in a FOSS world.

Agreed I can put my words to action.

Disagreed I intend to troll.

However, in trying to put my world into action I am ensuring I dont reinvent the wheel or I dont add to the distro pile and hence the qstns.

If I do something more with BL will potlst back.

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#19 2019-02-07 00:14:30

hhh
That's it!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 7,230
Website

Re: LTS version

Closing,please open a new thread if necessary.

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