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#1 2018-06-23 09:54:09

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

We need more Quotes!

Hello everybody,
The bunsenlabs quotes (as fortune cookies) will be packaged as a .deb, and likely become part of the bunsenlabs repos.

If you don't know about bunsenlabs quotes and the fortune program yet, please have a look here:
Bunsenlabs Quotes (this is where you propose new quotes, taken here from the forums)

There is an option in ~/.config/openbox/autostart to show a fortune popup after login, and, well, that will become functional.
it is possible already now.
see here for more information:
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3674
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3673
(i recommend reading both threads from the end)

my repo, including

  • the fortunes, always updated

  • the beaker icon

  • the bl-fortune script, updated to adjust timeout based on number of words

there's also a provisiional .deb (fortunes only) (a little outdated now, but good for testing)

beaker icon

Anyhow, whenever you see something clever, beautiful, funny, thoughtful, outrageous that is worth quoting, please post it here!
Thanks!

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#2 2018-06-23 11:15:59

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 333
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

Deming Quotes
Like:
"management by numerical goal is an attempt to manage without knowledge of what to do, and in fact is usually management by fear."

Maybe not but anyway.
/Martin

Last edited by Martin (2018-06-23 11:18:05)


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#3 2018-06-23 20:20:51

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

^ are you saying i shouldn't worry about the number of quotes we have?

in any case, just to make it clear, the fortune-mod-cbbl package will contain only quotes from these forums, or crunchbang forums (hence cbbl).

if you get one every time you log in, 221 isn't that much.

but, one can always mix it with other fortune packages:
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … ite=stable
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?K=fortune-mod

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#4 2018-06-23 20:30:10

Dobbie03
Resident Metalhead
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,263
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

"I like my metal like my coffeee....black"

Dobbie circa 2012....

LOL kidding, I shall find some quotes and share.


I like my Metal like my coffee.......Black!
Resident Metalhead Poser

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#5 2018-06-24 00:18:31

glittersloth
...always giving it to you straight
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 805

Re: We need more Quotes!

Is there a quote shortage or something?
I always figured quotable posts on this forum were like morning wood - a daily occurrence.

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#6 2018-06-24 05:56:23

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,051
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

glittersloth wrote:

Is there a quote shortage or something?
I always figured quotable posts on this forum were like morning wood - a daily occurrence.

Apparently, nothing is as funny as it used to be.

Oh, what a world, what a world!

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#7 2018-06-24 08:51:19

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

glittersloth wrote:

Is there a quote shortage or something?
I always figured quotable posts on this forum were like morning wood - a daily occurrence.

ok, thanks for that glittersloth!
i know you can do better, but i like the meta quality of this one.
we should prod you every now and then, i'm sure something memorable will fall out.
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 902#p73902

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#8 2018-06-28 08:51:43

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

the bl-welcome script is in a usable state now.
i decided to change the text formattinmg a little so that it will work with other fortunes as well.

i chose nore's icon for good now, and removed the free clipart icon from the repo.
the icon needs to be specified with its full path on the command line; i think the debian package manintainer will take care of moving it to the correct location so that it can be specified with its shortname.

unless someone discovers a bug / has some improvement etc, it's all good now from my side.

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#9 2018-06-28 13:15:56

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,798
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

Radiotray not launch ! by exe

I like.

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#10 2019-06-04 04:13:35

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,051
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

@ohnonot and everyone, @johnraff has made the push, it will be in Lithium...

https://github.com/BunsenLabs/bunsen-me … 44f8df5afc

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#11 2019-06-04 07:18:53

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,556
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Re: We need more Quotes!

^Should we enable fortune popups in autostart by default, or leave it for users to uncomment?


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#12 2019-06-04 16:36:07

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,051
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

@johnraff and @ohnonot, the timeout for the notification is inconsistent, and too short in general ATM. It would be great if it could inherit the timeout set in xfce4-notifyd-settings, or just set it to something long enough so you can read the longer quotes, maybe 20 seconds?

-edit- Is the inconsistency that the time-out is determined by the length of the quote? Sometimes it's the short ones that disappear too fast. Maybe it just needs a longer delay in my openbox autostart for when I reboot.

Last edited by hhh (2019-06-04 17:58:42)

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#13 2019-06-05 02:24:29

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,556
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Re: We need more Quotes!

There are two separate delays here.

## bl-fortune - have the system come up with a little adage (not yet enabled)
#(sleep 120; bl-fortune) &

1) The delay before firing off bl-fortune. This is a quite arbitary 120s in BL's file atm, but could be anything. I use a random 'sleep $((RANDOM%3600+120))' but that needs bash.

2) The time that bl-fortune decides to set for the message display. This was the subject of much discussion a while ago. Now it's simply the # of words x 500ms, but I think it needs a fixed time adding on (as well as possibly increasing the 500) because humans need a certain time just to recognize that the message has appeared, before starting to read it.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#14 2019-06-06 05:52:35

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

johnraff wrote:

The time that bl-fortune decides to set for the message display. This was the subject of much discussion a while ago. Now it's simply the # of words x 500ms, but I think it needs a fixed time adding on (as well as possibly increasing the 500) because humans need a certain time just to recognize that the message has appeared, before starting to read it.

but then I overturned my own statement (to simply stick with notify-send timeouts), and we had a second, much longer discussion (where?) about an additional script, resulting in this.
the help text:

#~ It is said that average reading speed is ~250 words per minute for adults.
#~ That means 4.166667 words per second.
#~ I think it's fair to assume that the text should linger quite a bit longer,
#~ about twice as long. make that 2 words per second, that's a delay of 500ms
#~ per word:
delay=500

HELP="  bl-fortune is a script to display custom fortunes.

Usage:  bl-fortune [OPTIONS]

Options:
        -i <icon>, --icon=<icon>    use different icon
                                    (default is $msg_icon)
        -d <time>, --word-delay=<time> set delay per word, calculates
                                    message expiry time based on text length
                                    (default is ${delay}ms)
                                    (overrides -t)
        -t <time>, --expiry-time=<time> set message expiry time
                                    (default is ${msg_time}ms)
                                    (overrides -d)
        -c <name>, --cookie='<name>[ name]'  set fortune cookie list(s)
                                    (default is $cookie)
                                    (this can contain multiple fortunes and
                                    options to fortune. Example:
                                    \"-ae cbbl fortunes\")
        -D                          debug - enable some terminal messages
        -h, --help  show this message

Description:
        This is a wrapper round notify-send
        - the icon and time options are the same.
        Normally run without options,
        the default behaviour is to choose a fortune
        from the 'cbbl' collection, which is gathered
        from CrunchBang and BunsenLabs forum posts.
"

so particularly the mutually exclusive -d and -t options.
Is that not sufficient?

BTW, the topic of this thread still stands! If you really want sth added to the quotes, please make a request here, or here! thanks!

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#15 2019-06-06 06:14:12

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,556
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

ohnonot wrote:
johnraff wrote:

The time that bl-fortune decides to set for the message display...

...the help text:

...
delay=500

HELP="  bl-fortune is a script to display custom fortunes.

Usage:  bl-fortune [OPTIONS]

Options:
        -i <icon>, --icon=<icon>    use different icon
                                    (default is $msg_icon)
        -d <time>, --word-delay=<time> set delay per word, calculates
                                    message expiry time based on text length
                                    (default is ${delay}ms)
                                    (overrides -t)
        -t <time>, --expiry-time=<time> set message expiry time
                                    (default is ${msg_time}ms)
                                    (overrides -d)
        -c <name>, --cookie='<name>[ name]'  set fortune cookie list(s)
                                    (default is $cookie)
                                    (this can contain multiple fortunes and
                                    options to fortune. Example:
                                    \"-ae cbbl fortunes\")
        -D                          debug - enable some terminal messages
        -h, --help  show this message

..."

so particularly the mutually exclusive -d and -t options.
Is that not sufficient?

Apparently not, according to hhh (post 12). To be honest, I doubt if many users are going to tweak those -t and -d options attached to the bl-fortune call.

@hhh would you like to have a look at this part of /usr/bin/bl-fortune:

text="$(fortune $cookie)"

if (( delay > 0 )); then
    words="$(wc -w <<<"$text")"
    if (( words > 0 )); then
        msg_time="$(( words * delay ))"
    else
        msg_time=$msg_time_default
    fi
fi

and maybe see if you can tweak it to your satisfaction?
Maybe add a fixed delay (so short messages don't get missed) and a number-of-characters factor (so messages with long words get a bit more time), something like this?

text="$(fortune $cookie)"
fixed_delay=2000
word_delay=500
char_delay=30
if (( delay > 0 )); then
    words="$(wc -w <<<"$text")"
    chars="$(wc -m <<<"$text")"
    if (( words > 0 )); then
        msg_time="$(( fixed_delay + (words * word_delay) + (chars * char_delay)))"
    else
        msg_time=$msg_time_default
    fi
fi

And play with fixed_delay, word_delay and char_delay till the display time seems reasonable for a range of messages...


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#16 2019-06-06 06:36:55

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

^ i don't think you need to tweak the source code.
there's an option for either
- a dynamic (based on word count) delay this is adjustable! defaults to 500ms, but feel free to raise it.
or
- a simple static delay
If you add to that the possibility of a startup delay in autostart, I don't understand what the not implemented option could be?
If you tell me, I can look at it tonight.

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#17 2019-06-06 07:40:17

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,556
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

ohnonot wrote:

I don't understand what the not implemented option could be?

As in the code I posted above, instead of a simple word_count x delay_factor I suggested a more sophisticated automation:
Fixed_delay + (words x word_delay) + (characters x character_delay)

But I leave the decision up to you and hhh.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#18 2019-06-12 06:04:25

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,830
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

Sorry, I was away for a few days.

To whomever this may concern, person or persons:

So the fortune should linger, cumulatively, for:

- a fixed (adjustable) time, plus
- a defined time per word, plus
- a defined time per character

???

I am happy to put in the extra effort, but please explain to me the logical reasoning behind this complexity.
I simply don't see the need.

I did expansive tests when I wrote it and decided that - presuming that you want to read every fortune - a fairly exaggerated time-per-word is the best solution.

The alternative is a simple fixed timeout.

What point is this much more complex solution, and how is the user supposed to be able to adjust it?

BTW, when you say "delay", it sounds to me like you're talking about the delay before the fortune even appears; something I did not even implement deliberately, because it's so common to have "sleep X; bl-fortune" in your autostart.
I assume you really mean notification timeout; please correct me if I'm wrong.

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#19 2019-06-14 03:09:15

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,556
Website

Re: We need more Quotes!

^The word "delay" comes from your code.

#~ It is said that average reading speed is ~250 words per minute for adults.
#~ That means 4.166667 words per second.
#~ I think it's fair to assume that the text should linger quite a bit longer,
#~ about twice as long. make that 2 words per second, that's a delay of 500ms
#~ per word:
delay=500

You appear to be using it to indicate the time the text is displayed. I don't think anyone is talking about the delay before displaying the message.

Anyway, I've more-or-less written the code to implement the more sophisticated algorithm, and already - I think - explained why it might be considered an improvement, but anyway:

johnraff wrote:

Maybe add a fixed delay (so short messages don't get missed) and a number-of-characters factor (so messages with long words get a bit more time)...

text="$(fortune $cookie)"
fixed_delay=2000
word_delay=500
char_delay=30
if (( delay > 0 )); then
    words="$(wc -w <<<"$text")"
    chars="$(wc -m <<<"$text")"
    if (( words > 0 )); then
        msg_time="$(( fixed_delay + (words * word_delay) + (chars * char_delay)))"
    else
        msg_time=$msg_time_default
    fi
fi

People need a certain time just to recognize that something has appeared, before they start reading, hence fixed_delay
Time needed is related to the number of words: word_delay
Long words need longer to read, so: char_delay
An even more sophisticated algorithm might do a reading-time calculation on each word separately but that would surely be going too far. It was just a suggestion, to make sure the message is displayed long enough to be read, without annoying users with an excessively long display time. If that annoyance is considered negligable then it would simply be enough to use a very long display time - long enough for the longest message and the slowest reader.

I don't have anything to add - the package is yours to implement how you see fit.
Others may have different opinions.

Last edited by johnraff (2019-06-14 05:19:40)


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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