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#1 2018-06-13 18:40:45

nobody5
Member
Registered: 2018-06-02
Posts: 11

[SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Is it possible to achieve a systemd free bunsenlabs by following the instructions found in the link below?

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … stallation

Last edited by nobody5 (2018-06-18 19:59:37)

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#2 2018-06-13 19:04:26

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
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Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

No, those instructions are outdated (pin to wheezy!).

You can set sysvinit (or upstart) as PID1 (init) on Bunsenlabs with one command. This was for jessie, I haven't tested it on stretch, and it's to enable sysvinit...

sudo apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim systemd-sysv-

Reboot. If it breaks, you can keep the pieces.

Source and additional info...
https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianU … _Jessie.3F

For a truly systemd-free OS, you could try installing Devuan and then add BunsenLabs scripts and themes afterwards.

BTW, this discussion is 4 years old, I think it's safe to say the "sky is falling" hype over systemd was exaggerated...
https://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic … 00#p405300

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#3 2018-06-13 19:30:32

nobody5
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Registered: 2018-06-02
Posts: 11

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Thanks, hhh. I'm going to give replacing systemd with sysvinit a go tomorrow morning and I'll report back here with the results.

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#4 2018-06-13 20:55:40

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

You just have to run that one command and reboot, IIRC. If it reboots without problem, run 'sudo apt --purge autoremove'. If you prefer the faster boot time systemd offers, the command to revert back is...

sudo apt install systemd-sysv && sudo apt purge --autoremove sysvinit-core systemd-shim

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#5 2018-06-14 12:46:57

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

If it's about systemd-free and something like #BĹ, have a look at Star OS. Forum member ozitraveller's project.

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#6 2018-06-14 16:40:49

nobody5
Member
Registered: 2018-06-02
Posts: 11

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Results: no trouble installing sysvinit and removing systemd, but bl-exit was removed along with lightdm and network-manager-gnome when purging systemd packages. I rebooted and figured I could log in to the desktop with just startx but it didn’t work. I reverted back to systemd. It was an interesting experiment, nonetheless. And thanks for that suggestion martix!

Also, I tried Devuan before, hhh, but wasn’t impressed. Their packages have several dependency issues that regular Debian doesn’t. For instance, trying to remove xfburn isn’t possible without a bunch of other XFCE packages getting removed as well.

Last edited by nobody5 (2018-06-14 17:01:13)

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#7 2018-06-14 16:53:16

hhh
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Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

lightdm and network-manager in Debian depend on libpam-systemd...
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/lightdm
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/network-manager

I assume bl-exit does as well. So you cannot completely remove systemd and still have all the features of BunsenLabs.

However, you can change the init system...

rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim systemd-sysv-
[sudo] password for rachel: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  cgmanager initscripts insserv libcgmanager0 libnih-dbus1 libnih1 startpar
  sysv-rc
Suggested packages:
  bootchart2 pm-utils bum bootlogd
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  systemd-sysv
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  cgmanager initscripts insserv libcgmanager0 libnih-dbus1 libnih1 startpar
  systemd-shim sysv-rc sysvinit-core
0 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 738 kB of archives.
After this operation, 1,634 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
Get:1 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 libnih1 amd64 1.0.3-8 [125 kB]
Get:2 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 libnih-dbus1 amd64 1.0.3-8 [96.8 kB]
Get:3 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 libcgmanager0 amd64 0.41-2 [41.1 kB]
Get:4 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 cgmanager amd64 0.41-2 [84.0 kB]
Get:5 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 systemd-shim amd64 10-3 [20.0 kB]
Get:6 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 insserv amd64 1.14.0-5.4+b1 [61.8 kB]
Get:7 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 startpar amd64 0.59-3.1 [22.5 kB]
Get:8 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 sysv-rc all 2.88dsf-59.9 [67.4 kB]
Get:9 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 initscripts amd64 2.88dsf-59.9 [84.5 kB]
Get:10 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 sysvinit-core amd64 2.88dsf-59.9 [135 kB]
Fetched 738 kB in 3s (221 kB/s)     
Preconfiguring packages ...
Selecting previously unselected package libnih1.
(Reading database ... 102822 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../0-libnih1_1.0.3-8_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libnih1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libnih-dbus1.
Preparing to unpack .../1-libnih-dbus1_1.0.3-8_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libnih-dbus1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libcgmanager0:amd64.
Preparing to unpack .../2-libcgmanager0_0.41-2_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libcgmanager0:amd64 (0.41-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package cgmanager.
Preparing to unpack .../3-cgmanager_0.41-2_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking cgmanager (0.41-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package systemd-shim.
Preparing to unpack .../4-systemd-shim_10-3_amd64.deb ...
Adding 'diversion of /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service to /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service.systemd by systemd-shim'
Unpacking systemd-shim (10-3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package insserv.
Preparing to unpack .../5-insserv_1.14.0-5.4+b1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking insserv (1.14.0-5.4+b1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package startpar.
Preparing to unpack .../6-startpar_0.59-3.1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking startpar (0.59-3.1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package sysv-rc.
Preparing to unpack .../7-sysv-rc_2.88dsf-59.9_all.deb ...
Unpacking sysv-rc (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Selecting previously unselected package initscripts.
Preparing to unpack .../8-initscripts_2.88dsf-59.9_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
dpkg: systemd-sysv: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 init depends on systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core; however:
  Package systemd-sysv is to be removed.
  Package sysvinit-core is not installed.
 libpam-systemd:amd64 depends on systemd-shim (>= 10-3~) | systemd-sysv; however:
  Package systemd-shim is not configured yet.
  Package systemd-sysv is to be removed.

(Reading database ... 102972 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing systemd-sysv (232-25+deb9u3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package sysvinit-core.
(Reading database ... 102955 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../sysvinit-core_2.88dsf-59.9_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking sysvinit-core (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Setting up startpar (0.59-3.1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.24-11+deb9u3) ...
Processing triggers for systemd (232-25+deb9u3) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.6.1-2) ...
Setting up insserv (1.14.0-5.4+b1) ...
Processing triggers for dbus (1.10.26-0+deb9u1) ...
Setting up libnih1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Setting up libnih-dbus1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Setting up libcgmanager0:amd64 (0.41-2) ...
Setting up cgmanager (0.41-2) ...
Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/cgmanager.service → /lib/systemd/system/cgmanager.service.
Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/cgproxy.service → /lib/systemd/system/cgproxy.service.
insserv: Service mountkernfs has to be enabled to start service cgmanager
Setting up sysv-rc (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Setting up initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Setting up systemd-shim (10-3) ...
Setting up sysvinit-core (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Not restarting sysvinit
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.24-11+deb9u3) ...
Processing triggers for systemd (232-25+deb9u3) ...
rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt --purge autoremove
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ 

I'll take a risk and reboot now (please work please workl please work)...

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#8 2018-06-14 17:09:33

hhh
That's easy!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

I booted twice to make sure everything was OK. The first boot showed a warning as a new symlink was created. I have plymouth installed, wasn't fazed a bit.

Pic or it didn't happen...
Screenshot_2018-06-14_12-59-00.th.png

Now to revert back...

rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt install systemd-sysv && sudo apt purge --autoremove sysvinit-core systemd-shim
[sudo] password for rachel: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  sysvinit-core
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  systemd-sysv
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 81.1 kB of archives.
After this operation, 122 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
Get:1 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates/main amd64 systemd-sysv amd64 232-25+deb9u3 [81.1 kB]
Fetched 81.1 kB in 1s (57.7 kB/s)       
dpkg: sysvinit-core: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 init depends on systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core; however:
  Package systemd-sysv is not installed.
  Package sysvinit-core is to be removed.

(Reading database ... 102979 files and directories currently installed.)
Selecting previously unselected package systemd-sysv........................] 
(Reading database ... 102955 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking systemd-sysv (232-25+deb9u3) ...#.................................] 
Setting up systemd-sysv (232-25+deb9u3) ...#############....................] 
Generating grub configuration file ...#########################.............] 
Found background image: /usr/share/images/desktop-base/desktop-grub.png
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-amd64
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-6-amd64
Found Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (18.04) on /dev/sda6
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  cgmanager* libcgmanager0* libnih-dbus1* libnih1* systemd-shim*
  sysvinit-core*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 6 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 958 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
(Reading database ... 102972 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing systemd-shim (10-3) ...
Removing 'diversion of /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service to /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service.systemd by systemd-shim'
Removing cgmanager (0.41-2) ...
[....] Stopping cgroup management proxy daemon: cgproxy[....] Stopping cgroup management daemon: cgmanagerRemoving libcgmanager0:amd64 (0.41-2) ...
Removing libnih-dbus1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Removing libnih1 (1.0.3-8) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.24-11+deb9u3) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.6.1-2) ...
Processing triggers for dbus (1.10.26-0+deb9u1) ...
(Reading database ... 102926 files and directories currently installed.)
Purging configuration files for cgmanager (0.41-2) ...
Purging configuration files for sysvinit-core (2.88dsf-59.9) ...
Purging configuration files for systemd-shim (10-3) ...
No diversion 'diversion of /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service to /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.systemd1.service.systemd by systemd-shim', none removed.
Processing triggers for systemd (232-25+deb9u3) ...
rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt --purge autoremove
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
rachel@TyrellCorp:~$

Looks good, see you after a couple of reboots!

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#9 2018-06-14 17:16:44

hhh
That's easy!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Booyakasha!!!

Screenshot_2018-06-14_13-12-45.th.png

bl-exit uses systemd commands to reboot and shutdown, so that would need hacking to work with sysvinit.

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#10 2018-06-14 17:25:00

hhh
That's easy!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Finally, checking the install/removal lists, this cleans up the cruft...

rachel@TyrellCorp:~$ sudo apt purge --autoremove initscripts insserv
[sudo] password for rachel: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  initscripts* insserv* startpar* sysv-rc*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 554 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 

Long live apt and Debian!

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#11 2018-06-14 17:45:10

hhh
That's easy!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Quick follow-up, after reverting back to systemd i noticed boot messages about usb 2-6 read error, cannot enumerate. A web search suggested unplugging the power, so I shutdown, pulled the laptop battery, waited 30 seconds and booted. All seems back to its original state, no messages after several reboots.

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#12 2018-06-15 11:18:54

martix
Kim Jong-un Stunt Double
Registered: 2016-02-19
Posts: 1,267

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

AbsorptionOfLight wrote:

but bl-exit was removed


That topic with bl-exit was mentioned here and here before.

I did not test it without systemd yet, but it seems these details have to be considered:
"bl-exit is init-system agnostic and requires systemd (with systemd-shim under sysv init) to work."

"bl-exit needs systemd, which provides logind.
It's possible to install systemd + systemd-shim and get logind while continuing to use sysvinit."

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#13 2018-06-17 05:27:56

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 4,675
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

hhh wrote:

bl-exit uses systemd commands to reboot and shutdown...

It's not supposed to, see the topics Martix linked to, especially https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 961#p49961


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#14 2018-06-17 15:18:04

hhh
That's easy!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 6,106
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

^ Oops, right, brain was off as I was rushing to test. smile But restart and shutdown didn't WFM. I'm doing a test install now, I'll add this to the checklist and post back...

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#15 2018-06-18 03:34:32

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 4,675
Website

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

^As Martix said, bl-exit depends on systemd being installed on the system because it provides logind.
Actually, that means you're right that the commands are "systemd" I guess. smile

What the "agnostic" thing means is that you're not obliged to actually use systemd as your startup.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#16 2018-06-18 19:59:06

nobody5
Member
Registered: 2018-06-02
Posts: 11

Re: [SOLVED] Systemd free BunsenLabs?

Thanks, hhh, for going through all that trouble and sharing with all of us. And thank you martix and johnraff for your contributions to the discussion as well. The good thing is that the problems I've faced with other Linux distributions that use systemd I have yet to encounter with anything Debian-based or pure Debian itself (such as startjob and stopjob issues). smile
Marking this as solved.

Last edited by nobody5 (2018-06-18 20:00:18)

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