You are not logged in.

#1 2018-02-10 19:03:10

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

Disclaimer: I do not intend for this functionality to be added for the Helium release big_smile

As many of you are aware, the major desktop environments (GNOME & Plasma) have both moved away from the traditional X server (as used in BunsenLabs at the moment) in favour of the new Wayland display protocol.

Wayland FAQ

There are several different implementations of a Wayland compositor available at the moment:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wa … top_shells

My preference here is for velox but that's not a suitable openbox replacement.

Weston is a possibility but it would require several custom plugins for the functionality we need.

So I have decided to start the ball rolling with Sway glasses

Here are some packages for Debian stretch based systems (including Helium-dev):

https://software.opensuse.org//download … ckage=sway

I recommend installing the .deb files directly (using gdebi) rather than adding the repository wink

Screenshot here:

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 092#p68092

Happy testing and please do remember to offer your opinions!


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#2 2018-02-10 21:39:53

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

Usage Notes

Create the configuration file with:

mkdir -p ~/.config/sway
cp /etc/sway/config ~/.config/sway

Then edit ~/.config/sway/config to change the keybinds and other details.

Use mod4+Return to launch x-terminal-emulator but note that terminator will segfault immediately so an upgrade is required:

sudo apt install rxvt-unicode-256color
sudo update-alternatives --set x-terminal-emulator /usr/bin/urxvt

Urxvt will politely ignore any right-click interaction attempts, hold left-click & drag to select text and middle-click to paste the selection.

For more, see

man sway # etc

And https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#3 2018-02-11 13:53:53

devnull
Member
Registered: 2017-06-29
Posts: 69

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

So will openbox become deprecated? Can't we figure out a way of keeping our stuff, like using xwayland or something?

It has been a constant and joyful path of many years customizing my openbox, wouldn't want to start from scratch again

Offline

#4 2018-02-11 13:59:54

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

devnull wrote:

So will openbox become deprecated?

I wouldn't think so, no.

We will attempt to support Openbox for as long as we can.

Can't we figure out a way of keeping our stuff, like using xwayland or something?

Xwayland is for running X clients within a Wayland compositor so that is actually needed anyway to run most of our applications under Sway or Weston.

Don't worry, this is just an opportunity for the community to test one of several Wayland compositors that could be used in future as BunsenLabs' answer to the progression into the Brave New World of display protocols.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#5 2018-02-12 02:58:28

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,951
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

It would be nice to have some more choice of stacking window managers to use with Wayland.
I have no intention of using a tiling desktop myself, ever.
If it came to be the only choice, I'd either switch to Gnome/KDE, or stop using computers.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#6 2018-02-12 06:11:42

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,039
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

Budgie seems to be going wayland direction as well.
https://budgie-desktop.org/about/
https://cdn.scrot.moe/images/2017/08/22/solus3.png
Also solus is more awesome with every release.

Offline

#7 2018-02-12 07:44:25

dhalgren
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 87

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

johnraff wrote:

I have no intention of using a tiling desktop myself, ever.
If it came to be the only choice, I'd either switch to Gnome/KDE, or stop using computers.

Yes, I have to agree with that. But, on another note: on fluxbox's sourceforge ... the following:

fluxbox is a x11-client, meaning it heavily relies on talking to an xserver and managing other x11-clients ("windows"). as soon as there is a running x11-server ontop of wayland fluxbox will automatically run on waylwand. there are no plans to port fluxbox over to a wayland-only version.

I have to assume that this was humour, of a sort.

Offline

#8 2018-02-12 07:53:02

dhalgren
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 87

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

What about orbital?

Just beginning, but that's no reason to dismiss it.

Offline

#9 2018-02-12 07:53:30

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,951
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

^^Not necessarily.

Debian Wiki wrote:

Note that any X program will still run, as there is a XWayland server that provides backwards compatibility with X program.

https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#10 2018-02-12 08:03:16

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

johnraff wrote:

It would be nice to have some more choice of stacking window managers to use with Wayland.
I have no intention of using a tiling desktop myself, ever.
If it came to be the only choice, I'd either switch to Gnome/KDE, or stop using computers.

Sway can be configured to act as a stacker, I think, I will have a try tonight.

Otherwise, we could try writing some custom plugins using libweston to get the systray & other things we need to make Weston work.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#11 2018-02-12 08:42:11

dhalgren
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 87

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

@johnraff

Now that you mention it, that makes perfect sense; though I wouldn't have thought that it would apply to something like fluxbox.

Offline

#12 2018-02-12 10:47:23

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,214

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

johnraff wrote:

It would be nice to have some more choice of stacking window managers to use with Wayland.
I have no intention of using a tiling desktop myself, ever.
If it came to be the only choice, I'd either switch to Gnome/KDE, or stop using computers.

Last time I read his comments on development, Thomas Adam seemed to indicate Fvwm will get ported to Wayland once/if it becomes standard and is no longer a moving target.

I can see several window managers getting forked - openbox and fluxbox come to mind - so that they will run on Wayland. May have to go with Gnome or KDE for a while until they're available.

Edit - and it appears Thomas Adam is now working on a fork of cwm; maybe I send him an email and ask if it will run in Wayland when I check it out later.

Last edited by PackRat (2018-02-12 10:55:54)


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

Online

#13 2018-02-12 22:03:57

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

Here's Sway running with all windows in "floating" mode:

sway_float.th.png

Only one line is required in ~/.config/sway/config:

for_window [class="[.]*"] floating enable

It's far from perfect (no window decorations, chording required for resizing & moving, insane window placement) but it's a start smile


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#14 2018-02-12 22:07:23

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

dhalgren wrote:

What about orbital?

That seems to be Qt-based, as are Liri Shell and Grefsen.

I would prefer to stick to a Gtk base.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#15 2018-02-12 22:15:25

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

This may also be problematic:

Swaybar currently only supports tray icons that impliment the StatusNotifierItem (KDE) specification. The older SystemTray specification that uses Xembed is planned, but currently unsupported. If one still wants to use programs that impliment the older spec, the KDE helper program xembedsniproxy can be used to translate between the two protocols. However, this program is buggy and we will not help you use it until xembed is fully supported.

Are there any pnmixer equivalents that use StatusNotifierItem?


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#16 2018-02-12 22:55:10

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

(Apologies for the multi-post)

The all-important ps_mem result:

empty@virtlab:~/git/ps_mem $ sudo ./ps_mem.py                                            
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program

120.0 KiB + 153.0 KiB = 273.0 KiB	sleep
188.0 KiB + 190.0 KiB = 378.0 KiB	sh (2)
356.0 KiB + 275.5 KiB = 631.5 KiB	cron
668.0 KiB +   4.0 KiB = 672.0 KiB	mksh-static
440.0 KiB + 295.5 KiB = 735.5 KiB	irqbalance
636.0 KiB + 133.5 KiB = 769.5 KiB	mksh
908.0 KiB + 311.0 KiB =   1.2 MiB	login
740.0 KiB + 479.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	dbus-daemon
480.0 KiB + 814.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	(sd-pam)
956.0 KiB + 374.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	sudo
792.0 KiB + 604.0 KiB =   1.4 MiB	systemd-logind
  1.1 MiB + 493.5 KiB =   1.5 MiB	systemd-journald
  1.8 MiB + 208.5 KiB =   2.0 MiB	ntpd
  2.1 MiB + 209.0 KiB =   2.3 MiB	systemd-udevd
  1.2 MiB +   2.9 MiB =   4.2 MiB	systemd (2)
  2.3 MiB +   2.2 MiB =   4.5 MiB	swaybar
  1.6 MiB +   3.2 MiB =   4.8 MiB	swaybg
  3.5 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   5.2 MiB	x-terminal-emul
 12.2 MiB +   9.8 MiB =  22.0 MiB	Xwayland
 42.6 MiB +  15.0 MiB =  57.7 MiB	sway (3)
---------------------------------
                        113.9 MiB
=================================
Warning: Swap is not reported by this system.
empty@virtlab:~/git/ps_mem $

Good but not great, methinks.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#17 2018-02-13 00:39:24

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,951
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

I think it's too early to worry about specific issues with specific window managers for BL. As Packrat points out, developers have been waiting for Wayland to stabilize, and there may well be some more interesting alternatives available by the time leaving X becomes necessary.

Of course that doesn't mean no-one should think about this stuff... smile


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#18 2018-02-13 02:05:37

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,951
Website

Re: Sway: BunsenLabs' Wayland future?

Re: BL's Wayland future, another possibility that has already been mentioned is Kwin. Of course as a KDE project it will pull in a raft of dependencies, and again suggest a move from GTK to Qt. Quite a different picture of course...

EDIT: There's also the Gnome family Mutter, which might be usable on Wayland by the time we need it.

And I was thinking XFCE would be unlikely just to curl up and die when X goes. It might be a while though, porting everything to GTK3 has to come first apparently.

Last edited by johnraff (2018-02-13 05:17:17)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB