upgrade from bunsenlabs Hydrogen to Deuterium

hughparker1 · 2017-08-20 14:44:36

DELL Vostro 1520 (circa May 2010)
CPU: Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo T6670 @ 2.20GHz Penryn 45nm Technology
Graphics: Intel Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family (Dell)
RAM: 4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 398MHz (6-6-6-18)
Storage: 223GB Crucial_CT240M500SSD1 ATA Device (SSD)

I would like to upgrade from bunsenlabs hydrogen to Deuterium on an old 'DELL Vostro 1520' BIOS laptop

my system is up to date

I have a few sources.list files....

/etc/apt/sources.list		# change jessie to stretch ?

then there's three lists that looks like they have been added by 'bl-welcome'

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen-jessie-backports.list
/etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-jessie-backports.list
/etc/apt/sources.list.d/deb-multi.list

and there's a another file perhaps created during original installation...

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list	# that contains word 'bunsen-hydrogen'

I wondered if this would be the correct steps to perform upgrade....

1. run '$ sudo nano/etc/apt/sources.list # change any words from jessie to stretch ?
2. delete whatever is in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/'
3. run '$ sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'
4. run '$ bl-welcome' # will this allow me to re-create the 4 new files in '/etc/apt/sources.list.d' ?

I had a look online but didn't find any steps by step instructions, sorry if I missed something obvious, and not sure if this is the correct method to use / is there any steps missing / or do I need to use different approach.

Also wondered if there was any known issues in upgrading? thanks for any advice.

Last edited by hughparker1 (2017-08-20 14:46:50)

damo · 2017-08-20 15:11:48

"Deuterium" is a point release of BL Hydrogen (jessie), so apart from user config changes you probably already have it via the ordinary apt-get updates.

If you want to upgrade to the Helium development packages, which are based on Debian Stretch, then there is a dedicated thread for that.

What is that "deb-multi.list"? If you have deb-multimedia in your sources we recommend disabling it - it has caused problems for many users.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-20 15:11:59

hughparker1 wrote:

/etc/apt/sources.list		# change jessie to stretch ?

No, *do not* do that, BunsenLabs Deuterium is still based on Debian jessie.

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/deb-multi.list

You should probably remove that repository (and anything installed from there), the deb-multimedia option has been deleted from the current bl-welcome script because of various problems.

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list	# that contains word 'bunsen-hydrogen'

That's fine, we didn't bother changing the name of the repository for the point release, it was deemed pointless (just like the isotope naming scheme).

delete whatever is in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/'

Just remove deb-multimedia, leave the rest alone.

To fully upgrade your system to the Deuterium point release, simply issue these two commands:

sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade

If there is a message at the end of the upgrade that claims there are packages "left un-upgraded" then you may have to use `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` as well.

KrunchTime · 2017-08-20 22:06:05

damo wrote:

If you want to upgrade to the Helium development packages, which are based on Debian Stretch, then there is a dedicated thread for that.

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3800

hughparker1 · 2017-08-21 12:43:21

thanks for quick reply, this is contents of my various sources.list files....

/etc/apt/sources.list

deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free

# jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main contrib non-free

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen-jessie-backports.list

# added by bl-welcome
# BunsenLabs backports
deb http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian jessie-backports main

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list

deb http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian bunsen-hydrogen main

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-jessie-backports.list

# added by bl-welcome
# Debian backports
deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib non-free

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/deb-multi.list

# added by bl-welcome
# Multimedia repository
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org jessie main non-free

damo wrote:

"Deuterium" is a point release of BL Hydrogen (jessie), so apart from user config changes you probably already have it via the ordinary apt-get updates.

Sorry I didn't realise "Deuterium" is a point release, I thought it was the next version of BL.

If you want to upgrade to the Helium development packages, which are based on Debian Stretch, then there is a dedicated thread for that.

I had a look and now realise Helium is the next version. My mistake.

What is that "deb-multi.list"? If you have deb-multimedia in your sources we recommend disabling it - it has caused problems for many users.

Thanks for advice.

..............

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

hughparker1 wrote:
/etc/apt/sources.list		# change jessie to stretch ?
No, *do not* do that, BunsenLabs Deuterium is still based on Debian jessie.

thanks I realise that now, stupid me

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/deb-multi.list
You should probably remove that repository (and anything installed from there), the deb-multimedia option has been deleted from the current bl-welcome script because of various problems.

Thanks.

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/bunsen.list	# that contains word 'bunsen-hydrogen'
That's fine, we didn't bother changing the name of the repository for the point release, it was deemed pointless (just like the isotope naming scheme).

OK I understand, that makes sense.

delete whatever is in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/'
Just remove deb-multimedia, leave the rest alone.

ok thanks.

To fully upgrade your system to the Deuterium point release, simply issue these two commands:
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
If there is a message at the end of the upgrade that claims there are packages "left un-upgraded" then you may have to use `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` as well.

Thanks, I have already run update and upgrade and everything looks up to date. Here is what system is showing when I run 'lsb_release -a'...

hugh@DELL-VOSTRO-BUNSENLABS:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID:	BunsenLabs
Description:	BunsenLabs GNU/Linux 8.7 (Hydrogen)
Release:	8.7
Codename:	bunsen-hydrogen
hugh@DELL-VOSTRO-BUNSENLABS:~$

So name doesn't matter as you explained earlier, I understand that now.

KrunchTime wrote:

damo wrote:
If you want to upgrade to the Helium development packages, which are based on Debian Stretch, then there is a dedicated thread for that.
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3800

Thanks for link, I had a look at the posts, I'm not sure I am ready to upgrade now that I see the steps involved, although I can use the terminal, I am still a bit of a novice on linux tbh.

I noticed that @DustyB did a dist-upgrade on a BunsenLabs Deuterium install to Stretch everything seems to be working fine thus far .. https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 977#p56977

It just might be a little bit risky for me so I might wait for the stable release of Helium. My system is running well with no problems at all, so I'm happy to wait till new version is ready for release.

Thanks to everyone for you support, it is much appreciated. this is a great forum, everyone has been so helpful, and no one made fun of my stupid mistake

Last edited by hughparker1 (2017-08-21 12:44:07)

damo · 2017-08-21 14:46:40

hughparker1 wrote:

....
Thanks to everyone for you support, it is much appreciated. this is a great forum, everyone has been so helpful, and no one made fun of my stupid mistake

No probs. You aren't the first to get confused by the isotope naming scheme for point releases. I thought it was a clever idea, but I think we will drop it in future

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-21 23:29:57

I never said anything, but I thought the isotope naming scheme was cool for point releases too, but *shrug* for Hydrogen/Deuterium/Tritium it's easy enough, what *are* the isotopes for Helium? Or Lithium?, do they even have names? Or just subscript numbers? I know once you get into heavy metals they're just numbers...

KrunchTime · 2017-08-22 00:10:48

hughparker1 wrote:

Thanks for link, I had a look at the posts, I'm not sure I am ready to upgrade now that I see the steps involved, although I can use the terminal, I am still a bit of a novice on linux tbh.

Yes, if you are dist-upgrading from Hydrogen/Deuterium, there are a lot of steps. I prefer to start from a clean slate, so the instructions for doing that are very simple. Don't think of it as a mistake, think of it as a learning experience. ]:D

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-22 00:15:08

Debian is at a point where upgrading Jessie > Stretch is about as wise as upgrading Win95 > Win98 rather than doing a clean install.. which is to say "Utter lunacy", unless you *enjoy* weeks of troubleshooting...

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-22 06:20:04

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

what *are* the isotopes for Helium?

I have a BunsenLabs Diproton system lying about somewhere.

But yes, it does seem to add confusion.

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

Debian is at a point where upgrading Jessie > Stretch is about as wise as upgrading Win95 > Win98 rather than doing a clean install.. which is to say "Utter lunacy", unless you *enjoy* weeks of troubleshooting...

Do you actually have any personal experience to back that statement up?

I upgraded a fresh Hydrogen system (from an old ISO) straight to stretch with no problems just the other week; I've dragged older wheezy system through to jessie late in that release as well before now — APT is utterly awesome

Most experienced Linux sysadmins would advise waiting a few point releases before making the jump anyway, I think.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-08-22 06:21:12)

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-22 14:27:21

Have I borked systems and been unable to sort them out by changing my sources? Yes. Have I done upgrades from W95 > W98 and ended up with something usable? Also yes.. but it wasn't the way to bet.

Would I recommend ANYONE doing in-place upgrades for major releases of an OS? Absolutely not, and upgrading a "fresh setup" of anything is hardly a fair test either, it's absolutely not representative of a system someone has used a while, added things too, modified comfigs, etc. etc.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-22 21:06:02

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

Have I borked systems and been unable to sort them out by changing my sources? Yes.

That's not what I asked.

Have you experienced problems upgrading from jessie to stretch?

You claim that it is now not wise to attempt an upgrade from jessie to stretch but I do not think that this is good advice, I think that upgrades from jessie to stretch will be fine [1] (generally speaking and as long as the guidelines are followed, of course) even after jessie transfers to the Long Term Support team next June.

Debian is particularly excellent in respect of upgrades between releases and certainly _much_ better than many other operating systems I could mention.

Upgrades from BunsenLabs Hydrogen or Deuterium to Helium-dev seem to be going OK for most who try it (I've done it about eight times now, and two of those were from well-used and "unclean" systems) but a potential official upgrade path would definitely require some more thought and testing.

[1] Backup first!

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-22 22:05:23

HoaS wrote:

Have you experienced problems upgrading from jessie to stretch?

YES!

I ended up with a system that would only start in text mode. I seem to recall I had to pick single user mode even to get that far.

I wasn't following

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

Being on 32bit I used

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

instead.

Having had that experience I personally recommend against doing it.

Fortunately I had imaged the machine before attempting it, and was able to restore, copy my data off and install stretch clean instead.

I'm not going to start recommending a process that broke my system to others, that would be irresponsible. If I see others suggesting it, I'll warn them I found the process unreliable and recommend a clean install.

Last edited by Bearded_Blunder (2017-08-22 22:06:23)

DeepDayze · 2017-08-23 01:50:00

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

HoaS wrote:
Have you experienced problems upgrading from jessie to stretch?
YES!
I ended up with a system that would only start in text mode. I seem to recall I had to pick single user mode even to get that far.
I wasn't following
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
Being on 32bit I used
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
instead.
Having had that experience I personally recommend against doing it.
Fortunately I had imaged the machine before attempting it, and was able to restore, copy my data off and install stretch clean instead.
I'm not going to start recommending a process that broke my system to others, that would be irresponsible. If I see others suggesting it, I'll warn them I found the process unreliable and recommend a clean install.

If you tell us what changes you made for the upgrade from jessie to stretch then you can get help. If the guide is indeed broken perhaps there needs to be a bug report outlining what is wrong once the problem has been CONFIRMED and REPRODUCED by other people. Don't assume the guide is broken until you review your system's configuration as something might be awry with your configuration.

Have you disabled any 3rd party repositories prior to upgrade?

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-23 03:24:20

It was some time back, all I can say for sure is I went through that document step by step, got a broken system, since I had a disk image on hand, and needed no help to restore it and then do things the "sensible" way.. that's as far as it went, I saw no point bothering people with an easily solved problem.

Even the linked guide tells you to back up in case things go wrong..

4.1.4. Prepare for recovery wrote:

Although Debian tries to ensure that your system stays bootable at all times, there is always a chance that you may experience problems rebooting your system after the upgrade. Known potential issues are documented in this and the next chapters of these Release Notes.

*emphasis added.

Nothing wrong with the guide, even Debian don't guarantee the process.. and it bit me. I'm in no hurry to go relying on that process again. I won't be advising people to use a process I know from both experience and the documentation soetimes goes wrong.

damo · 2017-08-23 03:36:00

^ That seems a complex way of upgrading.

For BL, I removed BL packages, changed the sources, upgrade/dist-upgrade, and reinstalled the BL packages from the helium-dev repo ( --with-new-pkgs ). I have done it 4 times now, both on bare-metal and in VM's, with no problem, on desktop and laptop.

I always back-up first, though

Bearded_Blunder · 2017-08-23 04:05:06

It's a tedious process, which takes longer than a fresh install for a simple system, I tried it once, which was quite enough. I'm not bothering even trying again, when Buster becomes stable I may try a Stretch > Buster upgrade then, however one failure following the official route is sufficient to put me off it, especially if it's the first run through it.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-23 06:09:34

Bearded_Blunder wrote:

YES!

Please don't shout at me.

As I said, I have tried it _many_ times now (with both old and new systems) and we have _many_ reports of success on these very boards so perhaps you are in a minority.

Also, were you running SysVinit on this box? Support for the systemd shim was dropped over a year ago [1] and it may stop working at any time, or already...

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … =%23832508

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-08-23 06:22:59)

johnraff · 2017-08-23 06:33:18

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Support for the systemd shim was dropped over a year ago [1] and it may stop working at any time, or already...
[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … =%23832508

The package is in Buster atm. But if we dropped trying to support logind on sysvinit systems bl-exit could go back to using the systemctl shutdown commands.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-08-23 06:34:42

johnraff wrote:

The package is in Buster atm

It's been orphaned but it is still in the repositories.

Relying on an orphaned package to boot your system seems unwise, no?

EDIT: and there is no runit-init any more either... 8.(

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-08-23 06:35:42)

#1 2017-08-20 14:44:36