Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-20 20:00:07

WOAH, THANKS Hoas, the thingy you pointed out is friggin really cool/interesting looking. Good stuff fellow nixer.

Thinking about it actually brings up another thing. LESSON 4, sub-section a.) Found it actually helps me learning gnu/Linux thingy's with a combo of gooey(GUI)and cli. Still tend to try to learn the hardcore way via cli-fu though GUI for sure helps, has a place and can flat-out just be more convenient in whichever Nix situations.

Vlgooey!

Not butting in, know Hoas won't care anyway but install it "sudo apt-get install galternatives", then run it in run-dialogue ie: gmrun or whichever you prefer, "gksudo galternatives". At first I just used "galternatives" didn't matter, my OS is smarter than I am and the key-ring popped up asking for my PW before launching it anyway.

VlHoas!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-20 20:10:31)

martix · 2017-11-20 23:27:15

Recently someone suggested me a site regarding about:config settings in Firefox.

Here it is, might be useful sometimes.

There used to be on privacytools.io some details, but it seems they are gone.

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-20 23:28:28

VlD!! Which stands for Viva la Dillo, with such a fine web browser around, have no idea why anyone else bothered making others.

HEY DANG IT, when comes to Dillo what more needs be said of it's AWESOMENESS ?

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-20 23:37:29)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 00:09:52

This looks to be one of the best resources I've found on installing Chrome webextensions on FF Quantum. Got part way through dealing with, limited success because I got frustrated with the create account, blahblah. Seemed to be working, am just not truly interested enough for time being to bother with it.

*** BE WARNED ... BROWSER RELATED RANT, PAST THIS POINT!
ARGHHHHH ! What's next, submit a urine sample to launch your browser of choice !! Don't get me wrong, really didn't seem all that much invasive anyway and Mozilla is doing what they have to do, to somewhat recover and stay competitive with others. AKA: Chrome is smashing everybody else. It's already to the point from what I've seen that ALL the other web browsers are pretty much marginalized today. Not quite but getting there.
They'll always have their die-hard userbase(s). Almost certainly Firefox in some form or other will stay around too. Even if that's a fork or fork(s), or a fork of forks. Firefox is also the Debian of web browsers, 3,202 forks and "based" on's already in the wild. Just same time, it worries me to see things this way. Too much power in too few (ONE)hand = Google Inc and they already have so many advantages and influence as it is.
Less users ... has to mean less funding, less ad-share revenue from search providers, the same. Why would google agree to pay Mozilla x-amount for ads displayed/clicked(CPA-etc), when they have Chrome and the lions share of the browser market anyway ? Oops, don't get me wrong for Firefox/Opera etc, they still represent millions, so Google will likely pay something. Just clearly see it being a not as much anymore, YOU need u$, way more than WE need you's deal. All has to mean less developers, less interest in continual improvement and harder for Mozilla to pay the electric bill to keep the lights on at Mozilla HQ. Anyway ... yep, self explanatory but worrisome in ways.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 00:20:06)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 00:31:27

Some may find that interesting as regards Chrome and it's sheer appetite for eating system resources alive. I know it could be tweaked and tamed, it's software and this is gnu/Linux. If someone can't figure out how to do something they need to get a copy of "how to use a search engine for dummies and lazy people" or summin.

Mentioned have reined in Quantum to much extent already, will continue the process of learning how to get it to do whatever I want it to do too. Sheesh ... won't be long and will have 43tabs open in it too and still be at like 700-800mbs and a peaceful cpu stats-line. Errrrr ... might even make a youtube vid, in case somebody doesn't believe me *cough/Hoas, cough.

Yep joking, always thought the screenie or didn't happen thing's fairly stupid too. If they're lying about xyz, what's to keep them from faking a dang screenshot ? Hoas you are duly invited over to my place to watch in wonder as before long I do exactly as stated above. Open 74tabs in Quantum ( or Chrome) and don't have all the resources on ma poor old lappy redline, as result.

PS, am going to reluctantly share one of my super-secret Firefox tweaks, shhhhhh, don't anybody tell anybody else about this ... kay ? It's really very complicated, so try to follow along, a) Install noscript b) Done, whew that was a lot o work *wipes sweaty brow.
Ok ... will stop being a dork but not even kidding, just noscript alone will work wonders in regards keeping overhead down, while still plenty of speed, not kidding when said my slightly tweaked FF v56 is almost as fast as Quantum as it is. Quantum's got a new javascript handling engine thingy, which hey is great, AS LONG as noscript stops any javascript's it's trying to run on websites w/o my permission too !
Plus think Mozilla is employing some rendering/display tweaks too(Chrome's long done so itself imo.) Like the old nglayout.initialpaint.delay about:config tweak people used to use, makes it appear faster, starts rendering=displaying a webpg IMMEDIATELY, though seen that tweak USED to actually increase overall load time, with the browser having to re-render the webpg.
Still felt/looked more responsive to the end user(s). I never bothered with it and even when it was in use, considered it a stupid about:config tweak, shrugs. Also not that there's anything wrong with Mozilla doing whatever. About time they started swinging back and leveraging all the kickarse browserage software and expertise they have going. VlFF!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 00:50:50)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 00:58:57

Nope one last then need to STHU.

Webpg on tweaking Chrome mentions, Chrome's "pre-rendering" activities, omg ... for real, this brings to mind one of my pet browser peeves, pre-fetching. When your browser downloads something or in Chrome's case possibly EVERYTHING on a webpg you're viewing or parts thereof ie: URL's and what they link to. In case you decide to click on it.

End result depending upon how it's setup ? Sure when you spend 42sec reading the content on a webpg, then click xyz-link on it, WHAM appears instantly. Someone who doesn't know what's going on behind scenes, says WOW that's fast, good job Chrome. It's also wasteful, eats A LOT of RAM, cpu overhead and could be wasting mucho bandwidth downloading crap you never even wanted to look @. < Can surely be disabled/controlled in your browser of choice but that's only if you know it's going on eh.

Now Chrome pre-rendering imo, likely translates to it's eating your RAM/cpu/BW alive in the background fetching stuff and also going a step further, above and beyond, to begin rendering those webpgs for display. To me I don't like this technique, I mean yep, can actually be a benefit but I view it as wasteful. Plus how each applies it, to what extent, they can't read your mind and know what you're going to click on, so to me would have to be an all or nothing, to make it make any kind of sense @ all.

Edit: Though think of overall effect it'd have on low-powered hardware, slow internet connections or expen$ive cellular BW ? So unless Chrome or whichever runs a scan of the system and tweaks it's settings accordingly, they could be causing some users grief and ca$h too. As well as potentially contributing to da dreaded buffer bloat or whatever on the webz. All manner of packets in flight, servers near and far, diligently doing their jobs of sending out stuff, nobody even requested or will ever bother to look at ?

I disable network.prefetch-next in about:config, though do leave the network.dns.disablePrefetch enabled, so that presumably while I'm dorking around on a page, FF is sending out DNS requests for stuff I may actually click on. Those are tiny amounts of info though and are very quickly completed at cost of almost no system overhead. I can live with that.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 01:34:25)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 01:54:44

DANG nope, bit more babble, again from the why Chrome eats all my resources page. Guy says

Certain extensions or web sites may also leak memory, which won’t get “cleaned up” when you’re done with it, causing higher RAM usage over time.

Open terminal "killall firefox", relaunch FF, it'll offer to restore all the tabs from your last session, if you want it to click that ... done.

And no matter how many times I see this, can't help saying GAWD the people who think this and say this are STUPID.

Seeing that huge number in Task Manager’s Memory column may be shocking, but it’s also important to remember that free RAM is useless RAM

Are you retarded ? Free RAM is memory available for things I want to do, it's a lighter, faster and likely more stable system, it's less processor overhead, it's longer battery life and less heat on my laptop etc etc ETC. People who say this never cease to aggravate me with their ignorance. Don't get me wrong, if people want to keep all their hardware's resources topped out at all times, then hey, it's their stuff.

If it actually does something worthwhile and that's x-persons preferences by all means. Avg cpu long out-lives the hardware it's installed on, even overclocked or whatever. But use of systems resources poorly for benefits that could be achieved in numerous better ways without such an approach is stupid imo. Well whatever. Now am truly done for awhile, am going to read the rest hiz webpg though, oh well.

VLL!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 01:55:51)

johnraff · 2017-11-21 02:13:12

BLizgreat! wrote:

install it "sudo apt-get install galternatives", then run it in run-dialogue ie: gmrun or whichever you prefer

BL users already have galternatives in the menu.

BLizgreat! wrote:

when comes to Dillo what more needs be said of it's AWESOMENESS ?

Yes. Lightning-fast. No javascript, no plugins, and use it with css off (recommended) - a lot of security issues become irrelevant. Great for Google searches, great if you just want to read a bit of text, also it's a brilliant doc viewer for your system. Note how fast it opens that huge /usr/share/doc directory. Note how .gz files are unpacked automatically...

Long-time dillo fan here.

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 02:20:48

^LMAO ... was kidding about Dillo, trying to get some nix newbs here to give it a go. Hey though if you like it Raff-san, then it just got a boost on my list. Only really ever played with it VERY BRIEFLY, so really didn't learn anything about it. Sounds like you did/have. Really have been thinking about the lynx browser, played with it for all of 30mins long ago.

Thinking about installing it and seeing what it or one of the other cli-browsers available can do. Most times, I'm really only concerned with the information/content of a webpg. Don't need all the ads, banners, social media this and that ... doohickies. Just the FACTS !

Have you played with any in the cli class John ?

Also haven't really gotten around to messing with the galternative things yet, been too busy babbling arse off here and there in this forum. Though looks quite cool and appreciate Hoas mentioning it too. Not at all surprised you guys on the BL-Team selected some good out-of-box, would expect nothing less and have used BL-Hydrogen, still kind of using it though now it's a hybrid OS. You guys did a GREAT job imo.

VlBLL!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 02:22:08)

tknomanzr · 2017-11-21 02:24:58

^ It is not uncommon for me to keep lynx around, if for no other reason than it ensures you have access to a browser, even when stuck in console mode, for those kinds of occasions.

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 02:35:29

^ Hey thanks and dang good point, hadn't even thought of it. Good idea though as long as ya got net-access guess could always "apt-get install lynx" etc. Though may not cross my mind at the time, so taking your advice Tknomanzr thanks. Have you/anybody done much dorking with the cli-browsers available ? How does this stand up vs another one ? Edit: ie: elinks, used it can't remember a dang thing about it but output of "apt-cache show elinks" makes it sound good too.

Lynx is finished installing.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 02:41:48)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 03:14:24

If it actually does something worthwhile and that's x-persons preferences by all means. Avg cpu long out-lives the hardware it's installed on, even overclocked or whatever. But use of systems resources poorly for benefits that could be achieved in numerous better ways without such an approach is stupid imo. Well whatever. Now am truly done for awhile, am going to read the rest hiz webpg though, oh well.

^ Great ... babble, about my own babble. Ummm Hoas, maybe you should permanently delegate me to the bike-shed fellow nixer.

Anyway, above there, the stupid persons answer to everything, JUST THROW/WASTE MORE RESOURCES AT IT ! YEAH ! Yep can work, still think it's friggin stupid, shrugs.

Some random Chromite says ...

HA !!! I opened 40tabs in Chrome NO PROBLEM, in yer face weird babbling guy I once saw on a gnu/Linux forum, saying I'm stupid ! Yeah, take that ... only had to buy a system with 235gbs of DDR5 and an octa-core ! You ain't so smart babbler.

Jokey joke, joke ... joke. If ran Chrome would post haste be exploring which noscript like extensions are available for it too.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 03:15:48)

johnraff · 2017-11-21 03:46:55

BLizgreat! wrote:

Have you played with any in the cli class John ?

Not yet but I keep meaning to, for the reason TK mentioned if nothing else. Wondering how they deal with javascript, and also need to check first with HoaS if they're secure or not.

In fact, javascript with cli internet is something that's long been (low, though) on my to-do list. All these radio stations that insist on going through hoops before they deign to pass you the streaming URL...

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 03:57:15

^ Thanks John-san.

Asking Hoas if something is secure ? Errrrrr ... mmmmm. Messing around, well mostly again.

Installed lynx and elinks, launched them and can't tell up from down ... or if I'm going sideways etc. Will have to do some googling or read the man pages, help features etc for them. Have ZERO idea how to use them. Actually would like to see what Hoas has to say on it too. Though off top would say many of them would have to be highly secure, as they've been around forever. Mileage may dang well vary though. Not like they're at the top of anyone's development list. Some hobbyists who like them mayhaps. Suckers could be prone to all manner of weird quirks and rendering problems dunno.

@HEY HOAS ... HELP !

tknomanzr · 2017-11-21 05:14:31

You don't get much but text in lynx. It is useful in a pinch and has a bit of a learning curve. It is ncurses, however so I can manage in it. However, those times when you are stuck in console and just need a bit of info to get your stuff fixed and going again makes it worth it as an OH $*** button.

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 06:50:48

Will read up on it, maybe ... eventually. This got me to thinking, wonder if there's a FF extension which enables it to be text only, mentioned it's the Debian equivalent of web browsers but also much like the Wordpress of browsers too, there's probably a plugin for just about anything someone could imagine. OR used to be.

Mentioned anyone who wants can hit the Mozilla archives and install any or every version of firefox since time began, if xyz-version doesn't support whichever plugin/extensions anymore. Already babbled about it, about babbled out believe it or not.

Though also of course babbled about the webextension's thing. They must've had serious reasons and didn't make such a major decision arbitrarily I'm 100% sure. They pissed A LOT of people both user and the extension developers/maintainers off with this move. I don't know enough about the technical aspects to understand it, only that they wouldn't have done it without a DANG good reason.

So having no real understanding (or an inside view of the why's behind it either), so likely no idea what I'm talking about but not real sure dropping support and embracing Chrome's was the right thing to do. Ah ... I can't speculate, as again ... I don't know. It's a bitter sweet maneuver sure, lose something but hopefully gain all of the extensions all the people supporting Chrome/ium etc are offering and with Chrome being the undisputed and reigning KING of da browsers, am sure more dev's are moving to put out stuff for it, rather than bothering with FF, a browser that was getting left in the dust, shrugs.

Damn ... did I mention I tend towards babbling incessantly and overthinking EVERY DAMN THING ?!

PS, ALL HAIL CHROME AND GOOG! INC, OR DIE LIKE DOGS !

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 06:54:44)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-11-21 07:29:41

For terminal-based browsing, try links2 and start it with:

xlinks2 bunsenlabs.org

To view our lovely screenshots 8)

EDIT: it's my second favourite browser (after edbrowse, ofc)

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-11-21 07:30:58)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 07:31:41

GOTTA babble, am typing this on FF v 4.01 !!!! The friggin thing is actually fast as hell too. Took a bit of finnagling and it's been a long time since I've dorked with this. At first couldn't get it to launch, clicking on firefox or firefox-bin, nope, tried running it in terminal, nope. Hmmmm, maybe it's this multiarch OS or the custom kernel. Reboot, 32bit hybrid and try again, nope, nope. Booted the oldest kernel I have on the OS v 4.9 something, try again, click, nope.

Was about to give up and then decided to try launching it in terminal one more time, BAM sucker fired up ! Probably trashed my firefox-esr thingy's profile, not that I care. Thing is VERY fast, also VERY light and seems to be behaving itself just fine.

Current top output says. 98+% idle, sensors =

Processor Fan: 2960 RPM
CPU: +44.0°C
Other: +42.0°C
Other: +43.0°C
acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1: +44.5°C (crit = +100.0°C)
coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0: +47.0°C (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1: +45.0°C (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

Ps_mem

101.3 MiB + 4.0 MiB = 105.3 MiB firefox-bin

Note: That's with 3 tabs open in it.
s
Damn, I might keep the thing, LMAO !!! Woah ... weird stuff, been awhile. Also even though I checked the settings that the automatic updates were set to ask etc. A lil popup thing informed me that FF v12 was available ! OMG, could it be true, whatcha guys think, should upgrade to version 12 ?!?!?!

VLFF!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 07:35:02)

BLizgreat! · 2017-11-21 07:41:51

As ever thanks Hoas, is appreciated as ever too. Was too busy rushing to babble about the above, to read anything. Also dl'ed FF v1.0 ooooOOOooo. Haven't tried running it as of yet, wouldn't be surprised if it fires up and works well enough too ! WOAH ... mentioned it's been awhile but imo, is friggin cool. Switched back to newer of course. May or not see if v1.0 will still run a bit later.

Now back on v4.01 had to confirm the command used to launch the sucker. It was "/mnt/data/FFTEMP/firefox/firefox &exit" That's the path to the relevant file on my OS and the &exit is of course so it launches and the terminal closes itself.

Here's the output of ps_mem, with just BL forum going.

64.8 MiB + 2.4 MiB = 67.2 MiB firefox-bin

This is friggin cool imo !

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-11-21 07:47:18)

martix · 2017-11-26 18:24:55

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

martix wrote:
Firejail
It provides a small measure of extra security and is very simple to implement so I would say that it is worth using but be sure to still maintain "safe" practices at all times.
FF v57 has e10s enabled by default (check about:support) so it's sandboxed anyway but another layer doesn't hurt.

Does it mean that FF v57 protects from cross-site scripting out-of-the-box?

When thinking about Firejail, this would be one of the reasons why it's not a bad idea after all to use it. Although I'm not sure if it's count with a sandboxed Firefox.

#141 2017-11-20 20:00:07

Re: Your views/experiences with web browsers fellow nixers ? :)

#142 2017-11-20 23:27:15

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#160 2017-11-26 18:24:55

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