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#26 2017-01-08 09:45:09

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 221
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:
Martin wrote:

I have decided to take i3 for a serious spin

this is exactly where i got stuck - i'm getting along with it so well

Laptop or desktop?
The reason for asking is yesterday I tried to work a little on my work-laptop using i3. I was working in a very mouse-centric program and had to give up after a short while. I switched to Gnome which works much better with the touchpad than i3 does (still not good but OK for this particular program). I have done nothing to tune the touchpad experience in either WM.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#27 2017-01-08 14:49:00

ohnonot
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

i3 has been the main wm on my netbook for quite some time now, and some time after starting this thread i also made it my main wm on my desktop.
i find i3 (or tilers in general) to be even more suitable for laptops because touchpads just suck, and the point of most tilers is that you use the keyboard much more.
but that doesn't mean i cannot use the pointer.
i don't quite understand what your problem is; maybe you want to elaborate?

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#28 2017-01-08 15:35:23

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 221
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Yes, touchpads are less than ideal MMIs. That is why I started to look into i3 in the first place.

This is the first time I am exposed to laptop + Linux. I don't know if the following is typical or Ubuntu specific but the two-finger scroll is new to me and so is the lack of window resizing and moving when not having a mouse. Also, the little joy-stick in the middle of the keyboard is over-sensitive to an extent that makes it useless. (On my old W7 laptop I usually switch off the touchpad and use the joy-stick instead even if it tends towards the sluggish end of the speed scale.)

Moving from Unity or Gnome to i3 I find the touchpad totally erratic. It may choose to ignore me completely or it may stick to scrolling mode when I just want to move the pointer. At first I thought it was the weather: It has been cold, hence dry indoors and I thought my finger tips may be too dry to be detected reliably. But since switching to Gnome made all the difference I had to write that theory off.

The program I was using is Mendeley desktop and I have not figured out how to move around between panes and list objects without wielding the mouse/touchpad. (I discovered Mendeley years before Elsevier acquired it.)

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#29 2017-01-08 16:54:29

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 730

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

I use i3 and spectrwm on my laptop all the time. What I do is:

1. disable the touchpad at startup
2. have a keybinding that will toggle the touchpad on/off in case I need it.
3. use a cordless mouse.

The touchpad on my HP is also a bit too sensitive for tiling wm's, I only toggle it on if I'm in the airport or a cafe where there isn't the table space for a mouse.

Enough thread de-railing, looking forward to some additional entries, ohnonot.


It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
                                                                                                                                       Upton Sinclair

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#30 2017-01-09 07:37:03

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

i don't really mind the de-railing, i think i will always update post #1 to announce new articles.

anyhow, how the touchpad/pointer/mouse is configured has nothing to do with the window manager! (*)
if mendeley uses normal windows, you can access them with i3 and thusly with the keyboard. read the docs! if not (it creates something like its own windows inside the app window?), well then you can still see how mendeley can be set up with internal keybinds.

in any case you should research how you can configure the touchpad to your liking.
if are you using i3 without any DE these things actually get easier (gnome is infamous for adding an extra layer to the configuration of peripherals), start here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics

(*) please understand the difference between a desktop environment and a window manager.

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-01-09 07:38:10)

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#31 2017-01-31 15:56:23

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

i finally got around to finshing the i3 article:
http://dt.iki.fi/i3-windowmanager

i3 has been my main driver for 2 months now, mostly because of christmas & not much time for nerdy stuff.

i think i'm ready to move on soon... maybe fluxbox next...

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#32 2017-02-01 11:20:08

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,477

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

@ohnonot, Thanks for sharing, nice article, I did wrote a small anti-tiling post (It was actually hard to articulate what bothers me, but the 'facts' are quite simple).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2017-02-01 11:23:50)

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#33 2017-02-01 11:49:53

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

brontosaurusrex wrote:

I did wrote a small anti-tiling post

Nice smile

See also http://xahlee.info/linux/why_tiling_win … sucks.html

Posted from dwm   monkey


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#34 2017-02-01 16:07:56

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

brontosaurusrex wrote:

It was actually hard to articulate what bothers me, but the 'facts' are quite simple).

i understand;
but i could counterpoint each point with a pro point - i'm split down the middle.
i enjoy(ed) openbox because it has a bit of both really, i can use elements from a well-established floating workflow, as well as more keyboard oriented (mostly that one keybind thatmakes a window 50% width, full height, and moves it either to the right or left screen edge); i am still missing a way to combine "the best of both worlds"... maybe awesome...

the thing is using it mustn't get too complex, and it's bound to get that when you combine advanced floating with advanced tiling.

somebody told me fluxbox would have similar manual tiling options as openbox; we will see. they are not advertised, so again i guess i'm going to have to use the wm for quite a while.

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-02-01 16:10:49)

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#35 2017-02-01 17:10:26

brontosaurusrex
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,477

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

but i could counterpoint each point with a pro point.

What would be a pro point for "window is in the wrong place, has wrong size and wrong padding/margin"?

p.s. Playing around with this ruby script in openbox, run as rtile.rb --all-auto.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2017-02-01 17:13:18)

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#36 2017-02-02 08:02:59

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

brontosaurusrex wrote:

What would be a pro point for "window is in the wrong place, has wrong size and wrong padding/margin"?

"window is in the right place (i.e. covering all unused space), has right size (see previous explanation) and right padding/margin (i.e. none, again, making FULL use of all available space)"
like that?  wink
but then i can't see my conkys anymore...
like i said, i can see both sides.

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#37 2017-02-02 09:39:12

brontosaurusrex
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,477

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Ok, you got my attention smile

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#38 2017-02-03 02:59:38

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Great thread! I had tons of fun with awesome and would love to see a detailed write-up...
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=682

That scrot! I had forgotten how lickable that setup was.

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#39 2017-02-03 04:31:14

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 4,283
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

...but then i can't see my conkys anymore...

One workaround could be to be to make your conkys float on top of everything (maybe with opaque backgound so you can read them) and bind them to a key to toggle them on and off.
(eg with something like this.)

Last edited by johnraff (2017-02-03 04:34:40)


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#40 2017-04-10 14:48:58

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

At long last I finished the fluxbox article big_smile

Fluxbox works really well for me, but for some reason I always find myself comparing it to (and trying to make it look & behave like) openbox!

Also, fluxbox has this uncanny ability to bring the hacker out in me.
there's so many options, and so many quirks, and the config file format is so simple...
days and days and days of tweaking, hacking, scripting, improving, failing...
well, read the article.
many of the good bits are actually inside the config files, so make sure you take a look.

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#41 2017-04-10 16:17:18

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,118

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Thought OH GOOD I gotta read this ....

This article is part 4 of a series.

so I clicked on the link; 'a series' because I wanted to read from the beginning.

And I get an error, added an exception and tried to carry on.  I see this message:

A username and password are being requested by https://dt.iki.fi:9113. The site says: "Restricted"

Thought you might like to know.


BunsenLabs Forum Rules ---== I'm a Conky 1.9'er ==---
System:    Host: s12 Kernel: 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: Openbox 3.5.2 dm: (startx) Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8

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#42 2017-04-10 17:45:50

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

^thanks a lot. should be fixed now.

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#43 2017-04-10 18:15:08

Sector11
Tpyo Knig
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,118

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

YUP fixed.  Thank YOU.  Now to get reading.  big_smile


BunsenLabs Forum Rules ---== I'm a Conky 1.9'er ==---
System:    Host: s12 Kernel: 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: Openbox 3.5.2 dm: (startx) Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 8

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#44 2017-04-17 08:41:22

ido
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Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 8

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot, thanks for writing that fluxbox article and for posting a link to it.

I've been using fluxbox for a couple years, primarily due to just wanting "a WM that stays outa my way". Recently, while looking for a missing "feature", I checked the changelog (linked to the packages.debian.org page for fluxbox) and lo-n-behold, 1.3.7 seemed to have that feature... but that version is sitting (since 2015) in debian "experimental" repo. Sigh.

Topic: how to achieve vertical (left-side) toolbar + HORIZ button text ?
vsido.org/index.php?topic=1285.0

When I traipsed around looking for the current code, geez unmerged patches sitting since years ago which were uploaded to sf.net... 2yr-old outstanding pull requests at github... I wound up collecting & applying patches atop git1.3.7+ and rolling my own debfile.

I intend to post the source + "howto build" instructions to github. Would you be interested in building + testing it?
(and in collaborating toward further modding the code + FINALLY achieving comprehensive, up-to-date docs)

To be clear: I'm averse to uploading and distributing a .deb and I hope the excercise will teach prospective testers/adopters how easy it is to DIY build.
I don't intend to fork fluxbox, I'm just tinkering with maintaining a custom build/branch of it.

Your blog article didn't hint that you're aware of all the new functionality fluxbox has gained in recent versions.
Yeah, as you mentioned, lotsa 'stuffs' has never been documented.
Did you realize that we can now create freeform toolbar buttons?
(as in, within init: declare a button, a label, an Exec string ... and specify the button via the toolbar.tools line as a named, placeable, item)

I read that your modded fluxStyle utility creates missing preview images.
Wow, I woulda never considered that angle. I started (then parked, as back burner) crafting a python+gtk+sqlite utility to display the tenr.de "preview.jpg" images... with the intention of populating a db with "tags" like the color(s) etc for each of the indexed themes in the collection. An as-you-type filter would present a listview containing matching themes (maybe w/ screenshot for each) and right-clicking an entry would expose actions to "edit this record (add/edit tags or description)" and "testdrive". I reckon the app should be able to temporarily copy-into-place ~/.fluxbox/styles/styleX and remove it after testdriving, if user decides it's not a keeper.

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#45 2017-04-17 08:54:08

ido
Member
Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 8

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ps:
You've modded fbpanel as well? That's where I too wound up, in pursuit of achieving a wiiiiiide horizontal taskbar (iconbar?).
I'm disabling its tray (leave that to fluxbox toolbar or tint2 or) and most of its other plugins.
My fbpanel build has a nuisance message bug, logged at each mouseout event.
(along the lines of: garbage collection called on a non-existent object) Have you witnessed such a message?

Last edited by ido (2017-04-17 19:20:30)

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#46 2017-04-18 06:18:34

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

thanks for your feedback.
i'll be happy to testdrive your "all patches included" version of fluxbox - on archlinux.

ido wrote:

1.3.7 seemed to have that feature... but that version is sitting (since 2015) in debian "experimental" repo. Sigh.

one of the many things i forgot to mention in the article:
i'm on archlinux and the evrsion tested is 1.3.7

Topic: how to achieve vertical (left-side) toolbar + HORIZ button text ?
vsido.org/index.php?topic=1285.0

iirc, the toolbar can be vertical, and then rotates the font 90 degrees? A rather cool feature imo.

Did you realize that we can now create freeform toolbar buttons?
(as in, within init: declare a button, a label, an Exec string ... and specify the button via the toolbar.tools line as a named, placeable, item)

erm, no i wasn't.
can you show/explain/link?

about fluxStyle: my changes are extremely trivial.
i can't even code in  python.
just as a thought, and if i understand correctly, openbox uses a separate library to create the previews: libobrender.

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#47 2017-04-18 06:19:21

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ido wrote:

You've modded fbpanel as well?

where did you get that impression?

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#48 2017-04-18 07:57:15

ido
Member
Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 8

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

fbpanel ~~ dunno whether I just misread or was jumping between multiple browser tabs and got confused about the context where I read about someone's fbpanel mod.

I think there's an open ticket against 1.3.7 in which someone claims the "generic button" feature does not work. I thought so too, until I got 'round to wading through the code.
howto:

Decide an itemname for the button. In this example, button shall be named "boog".
Edit ~/.fluxbox/init and add these lines:

session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.label: Menu
session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.font: sans-10  # this line is optional
session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.commands: RootMenu:Exec

Also, modify your "session.screen0.toolbar.tools:" line, to place the button (and to specify its ordering among the other elements).
e.g. for leftmost placement

session.screen0.toolbar.tools: button.boog, workspacename, prevworkspace, nextworkspace, iconbar, . . .

doc/asciidoc/fluxbox.txt
https://github.com/fluxbox/fluxbox/tree … c/asciidoc
you can see here that it (docs) wasn't added until 7mos ago.
IOW, anyone whose distro is shipping a package older than 7mos (cough, "debian experimental repo") wouldn't have seen the doc.

Button.<name>
    A generic button with customizable label and mouse actions
The contents and behavior of the toolbar can be configured, see the TOOLBAR section for details.

. . .

session.screen0.toolbar.button.<name>.commands:   string:string:string:string:string
A colon delimited list of commands, executed when the respective mouse button is pressed on the toolbar button tool "button.<name>"
The commands are the same as those detailed in fluxbox-keys(5).
Default: blank

This particular example might not be appealing for a bangcruncher (FWIW, my daily driver is antiX)
but is useful in setting up a session in which `spacefm -d`, or Rox (or pcmanFM?) is autostarted.

Last edited by ido (2017-04-18 07:57:59)

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#49 2017-04-18 08:23:49

ido
Member
Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 8

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

iirc, the toolbar can be vertical, and then rotates the font 90 degrees?

Maybe I fell victim to lack-o-docs, but I tried everywhichway and wound up with only the pixmaps being rotated.
In dealing with c++, I'm more like a reverse engineering tweaker/patcher than "programmer".
My reach exceeded my grasp ~~ headspin when I considered the prospect of trying to rewrite the FbTk container classes.

fbpanel won my favor b/c it can run multiple concurrent instances, each with a separate config and customized edge placement.
I don't have a HiDPI display but have read comments grousing about fluxbox inability to scale pixmaps well.
Need to recheck, but I think fbpanel can render some imagefile types that fluxbox cannot. png? svg?

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#50 2017-04-18 19:09:30

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ido wrote:

Decide an itemname for the button. In this example, button shall be named "boog".
Edit ~/.fluxbox/init and add these lines:

session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.label: Menu
session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.font: sans-10  # this line is optional
session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.commands: RootMenu:Exec

Also, modify your "session.screen0.toolbar.tools:" line, to place the button (and to specify its ordering among the other elements).
e.g. for leftmost placement

session.screen0.toolbar.tools: button.boog, workspacename, prevworkspace, nextworkspace, iconbar, . . .

i must admit, it didn't work for me either. no error , the toolbar is as if the button hasn't been added at all...

session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.label:	Menu
session.screen0.toolbar.button.boog.commands:	RootMenu
session.screen0.toolbar.tools:	prevworkspace, workspacename, nextworkspace, button.boog, iconbar, clock

my version is 1.3.7-2. built on dec 2015.
maybe i have to try the git repo.

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