Background image install paths.

johnraff · 2016-03-12 02:23:19

This topic came up last year, and at the time I thought /usr/share/backgrounds was the best place for any background images, ie desktop wallpaper, splash, grub or lightdm.

However, recently the menu Preferences>Choose wallpaper nitrogen dialogue has been getting more and more annoying with all those grub and lightdm images...

In fact the only Debian packages I could find that put images in /usr/share/backgrounds are gnome-backgrounds, mate-backgrounds, xfdesktop4-data and gnome-screensaver, and all the files they put there look like desktop wallpapers.
Meanwhile, desktop-base puts wallpaper images in /usr/share/images/desktop-base/ and /usr/share/wallpapers.

So what I'm suggesting is moving the grub and login backgrounds out of /usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images to /usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/

At the same time the bl-default contents (installed by bunsen-images) can be separated out, the wallpapers staying under /backgrounds/ and the grub and login images joining the others from bunsen-images-extra in /bl-grub/ and /bl-login/ (do we need those bl- prefixes?) under /usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/

The wallpapers might go in /usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen or /usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/wallpapers or /usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers All would work OK with Nitrogen's dialogue box. The other stuff would be in /usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/{grub,login,asciiart,icon-avatar} (if the bl- prefixes are dropped).

Oh yes, that new bl-login-background alternative would have to be moved to /usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/login I guess.

Nitrogen would continue to work as-is, but without those pesky grub/login images, and the other things that would be affected by this change would be the LightDM login background path (which needs to be changed anyway) and ... anything else? (I think the grub setting would be adjusted automatically if I get the scripts right in the new image packages.)

Does this sound like a good idea? Any nasty implications I've forgotten?

xaos52 · 2016-03-12 15:52:40

Personally, I think we should give priority to clear and simple paths to images.

No repetition of bunsen- or bl- prefixes when there is a top bunsen directory.

No reference to package names in paths either, because it brings cluttering with it.
And there is 'apt-file' to find the package a file belongs to - which now works OK for bunsen packages too.

So, my suggestion for bunsen images file structure is:

/usr/share/bunsen
/usr/share/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers
/usr/share/bunsen/backgrounds
/usr/share/bunsen/backgrounds/login
/usr/share/bunsen/backgrounds/grub
/usr/share/bunsen/images - for 'other' bunsen images.

and eventually create specific subdirectories for specific purposes.

Then adopt our scripts to that schema.

Nitrogen and feh can take a directory as argument, so we can point them to our preferred directories.
e.g. launching of nitrogen:

nitrogen /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers

Users installing bunsen-images-extra wil want those extra wallpapers in /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers, together with the default wallpapers, so they can be selected with nitrogen/feh.

hhh · 2016-03-13 01:29:59

^+1, sounds good.

johnraff · 2016-03-13 04:15:18

@xaos52 thanks for your input, which makes sense. It's a pity you were'nt around when we discussed this stuff: http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=39215

About wallpapers - the reason we wanted to put BL's under /usr/share/backgrounds was that some other packages also installed there and users would have easy access to something from eg mate-backgrounds. In fact nitrogen's directory (set in ~/config/nitrogen/nitrogen.cfg) starts in ~/pictures/wallpapers so users can put their own images there. There's a symlink there called "shared" which points to /usr/share/backgrounds to get the system installed images. Nitrogen puts everything it finds in its dialogue box. ( http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 57#p433657 )

I'm also not quite sure about your images paths - putting icons, asciiart etc all right under "bunsen" along with docs and skel feels a little bit cluttered to me. At least an "images" top level dir maybe? So it could look like this:

/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen: holds all the wallpaper files
/usr/share/bunsen/images/asciiart
/usr/share/bunsen/images/icon-avatar
/usr/share/bunsen/images/backgrounds/login
/usr/share/bunsen/images/backgrounds/grub

or perhaps the "backgrounds" subdirectory could then be dispensed with, putting login and grub in with asciiart etc?

There's also the current
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-docs/
to consider. Should the "bunsen-docs" dir be renamed to "docs" (or "doc")?

(I did a check of install paths in our current system (edited results of "find"):

john@bunsen:~$ find /usr/lib -path '*bunsen*'
/usr/lib/bunsen
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-configs
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-configs/bl-user-setup
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-common
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-common/bl-include.cfg
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-common/yad-includes
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-welcome
/usr/lib/bunsen/bunsen-welcome/install-printer-packages
...
john@bunsen:~$ find /usr/share -path '*bunsen*'
/usr/share/man/man5/bunsen-os-release.5.gz
/usr/share/doc/bunsen-themes
/usr/share/doc/bunsen-images-extra
...
/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/places/distributor-logo-bunsenlabs.svg
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-default
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-default/bl-flame-text-1920x1200-centre-blue.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-2560x1080
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-2560x1080/bl-emission-grey-2560x1080.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-1920x1200
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-1920x1200/bl-flame-1920x1200-centre-blue-small.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl_bgpack_ututo
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl_bgpack_ututo/bl_1920x1080a.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-1600x1200
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl-1600x1200/bl-graph-grey-1600x1200.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-grub
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-grub/bl-grub-nebula.png
...
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-login
/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/bl-login/bl-login-green-text.png
...
/usr/share/pixmaps/bunsenlabs-flame.svg
/usr/share/bunsen
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/asciiart
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/asciiart/Bunsenlabs-flame-asciiart.txt
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/icon-avatar
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-images/icon-avatar/Bunsenlabs-flame.svg
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-docs
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-docs/helpfile-conkyzen.txt
...
/usr/share/bunsen/skel
/usr/share/bunsen/skel/.gmrunrc
...

Horizon_Brave · 2016-03-13 05:18:54

Not quite sure what issue this is looking to solve? Do you mean in the gui, when you open the menu, click Preferences > Choose Wallpaper > *nitrogen opens* That there are too many options available? The default isn't *that* cluttered...I currently have 8 options from the default install.

Also, why do you mean where the packages install their wallpapers? Does this make a difference?

xaos52 · 2016-03-13 17:35:16

/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl_bgpack_ututo/bl_1920x1080a.png

Don't you agree that this a dragon of a path name?
And most users will be puzzled by what 'bl_bgpack_ututo' is supposed to be.

In my schema all wallpapers - both default and images-extra - would go to
/usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers/

For nitrogen we could put more symlinks in ~/Pictures:
shared -> /usr/share/wallpapers # for mate-backgrounds etc
bunsen -> /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers # for bunsen wallpapers (both defaults and extras)
Nitrogen would still only show wallpapers, no grub- or login backgrounds.

or perhaps the "backgrounds" subdirectory could then be dispensed with, putting login and grub in with asciiart etc?

No. In my schema asciiart and icon-avatar get their own subdirectory.
The images subdirectory is meant for images _not_ in wallpapers, backgrounds, asciiart, icon-avatar, ...
- if there are any kind of images left that don't fulfill any special purpose.

For docs, I would just follow the established conventions for docs:
/usr/share/docs/<bunsen-package-name>/...
Here the bunsen-prefix will set our packages apart from Debian's.

damo · 2016-03-13 17:41:01

FWIW I agree with @xaos52 ^

Horizon_Brave · 2016-03-13 20:34:55

Ah I see, so basically a shrinking back of the longer more precise file paths, but they are pretty awkward, and pointless. My only question is, in your scheme, why do you suggest a /usr/share/bunsen/backgrounds as well as a /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers...wouldn't this be the same thing? you have it so login/grub is in backgrounds, but you have mate and bunsen default papers, inside of /wallappers.. Why split them up at all?

damo · 2016-03-13 20:41:40

Horizon_Brave wrote:

Ah I see, so basically a shrinking back of the longer more precise file paths, but they are pretty awkward, and pointless. My only question is, in your scheme, why do you suggest a /usr/share/bunsen/backgrounds as well as a /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers...wouldn't this be the same thing? you have it so login/grub is in backgrounds, but you have mate and bunsen default papers, inside of /wallappers.. Why split them up at all?

xaos52 wrote:

Nitrogen would still only show wallpapers, no grub- or login backgrounds.

ie the desktop backgrounds in `/wallpapers` would show up in Nitrogen, and the other types of background in `/backgrounds`....wouldn't

Horizon_Brave · 2016-03-13 21:11:33

Okay, yea I wasn't sure if having Nitrogen not show all wallpapers was what you wanted or not. So splitting them up in that way, only allows Nitro to see the ones we want... Take this at very very face value, but as a newbie, it comes off as pretty confusing still seeing /usr/share/backgrounds/ AND /usr/share/wallpapers/

I mean to me, both are synonyms for the same thing, I can see people not being sure what the difference is..why they need both, etc..Is this a concern?

damo · 2016-03-13 21:28:21

Horizon_Brave wrote:

.....
I mean to me, both are synonyms for the same thing, I can see people not being sure what the difference is..why they need both, etc..Is this a concern?

A "background" could be the background of just about anything - login screen, grub, dialog, windows, widgets, terminals etc.

To me a "wallpaper" is what decorates the room/desktop - you could also call it a "desktop background" if you like, but what do you suggest the filepath should be in that case? It should be obvious from the context of a converation what is being referred to, hopefully.

I think the idea is to distinguish between them by storing them in different places.

johnraff · 2016-03-14 03:16:18

^Although in practice the people who are actually putting images in /usr/share/backgrounds (gnome, mate xfce) are using it for wallpapers and not backgrounds in general. Meanwhile desktop-base and murrine-themes are using /usr/share/wallpapers . And look at where desktop-base puts wallpapers! https://packages.debian.org/jessie/all/ … e/filelist This seems to be a semi-official Debian package! So there aren't really any fixed standards unfortunately.

xaos52 wrote:

/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/bunsen-images/wallpapers/bl_bgpack_ututo/bl_1920x1080a.png
Don't you agree that this a dragon of a path name?
And most users will be puzzled by what 'bl_bgpack_ututo' is supposed to be.

Well, yes but don't we want to put sets of wallpapers together in their own subfolders? If all our wallpapers went into one /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers/ it would be very hard for users to find their way around. Think how the filemanager will order them, alphabetically? Are you advocating that the above file should be named something like /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers/ututo1920x1080a.png ?

For nitrogen we could put more symlinks in ~/Pictures:
shared -> /usr/share/wallpapers # for mate-backgrounds etc
bunsen -> /usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers # for bunsen wallpapers (both defaults and extras)

The mate-backgrounds are in /usr/share/backgrounds. Do we need yet another symlink to /usr/share/wallpapers?

or perhaps the "backgrounds" subdirectory could then be dispensed with, putting login and grub in with asciiart etc?
No. In my schema asciiart and icon-avatar get their own subdirectory.

That's not what I meant. I still don't see what would be wrong with:

/usr/share/bunsen/images/asciiart
/usr/share/bunsen/images/icon-avatar
/usr/share/bunsen/images/login
/usr/share/bunsen/images/grub

And surely there's also a case for:

/usr/share/images/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/images/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/images/bunsen/login
/usr/share/images/bunsen/grub

...and, OK, if you insist that wallpapers shouldn't go under

/usr/share/backgrounds/bunsen/

then

/usr/share/bunsen/images/wallpapers
or
/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers

For docs, I would just follow the established conventions for docs:
/usr/share/docs/<bunsen-package-name>/...
Here the bunsen-prefix will set our packages apart from Debian's.

That's for docs associated with some particular package, and of course we are already following standard Debian practice, putting README and copyright files there for each bunsen package.

bunsen-docs is a separate package which installs some help files which are used by the help menu, but can also be acessed directly by users. At the moment they go in
/usr/share/bunsen/bunsen-docs/
are you suggesting
/usr/share/docs/bunsen-docs ? That doesn't sound so unreasonable, if other devs (damo?) were happy with it.

damo · 2016-03-14 08:09:38

johnraff wrote:

......
And surely there's also a case for:
/usr/share/images/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/images/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/images/bunsen/login
/usr/share/images/bunsen/grub
.....
/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers

And for that last one: `/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers/<wallpaper pack>`

....
/usr/share/docs/bunsen-docs ? That doesn't sound so unreasonable, if other devs (damo?) were happy with it.

All the above are tidy and consistent IMO

pvsage · 2016-03-14 08:35:44

damo wrote:

johnraff wrote:
......
And surely there's also a case for:
/usr/share/images/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/images/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/images/bunsen/login
/usr/share/images/bunsen/grub
.....
/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers
And for that last one: `/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers/<wallpaper pack>`

If this were up to a vote, this would get mine, for whatever that's worth.

xaos52 · 2016-03-14 10:28:02

For now this is a placeholder for a post that will be filled in in todays course.

Horizon_Brave · 2016-03-14 14:38:45

/usr/share/images/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/images/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/images/bunsen/login
/usr/share/images/bunsen/grub
/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers

This looks very good. Very concise, and self explanatory. Users can look at each path and know what goes where and what each directory should be expected to contain. Likewise the directory /usr/share/images will be open to use by users/processes to store their own image files that are not bunsend related.

johnraff · 2016-03-15 02:28:44

Horizon_Brave wrote:

... the directory /usr/share/images will be open to use by users/processes to store their own image files that are not bunsend related.

Yes, if you want those images to be installed system-wide. If they're just for you, put them in your $HOME/pictures and don't worry about needing root access.

johnraff · 2016-03-15 03:32:00

BTW about docs, the Debian Policy Manual says about something-doc type packages:

Additional documentation included in the package should be installed under /usr/share/doc/package. If the documentation is packaged separately, as package-doc for example, it may be installed under either that path or into the documentation directory for the separate documentation package (/usr/share/doc/package-doc in this example).

which suggests that /usr/share/doc/bunsen-docs would be OK for our helpfiles.
But also:

Packages must not require the existence of any files in /usr/share/doc/ in order to function [115]. Any files that are used or read by programs but are also useful as stand alone documentation should be installed elsewhere, such as under /usr/share/package/, and then included via symbolic links in /usr/share/doc/package.

Since our helpfiles are referenced by the menu, in fact that means that they have to go somewhere else, eg /usr/share/bunsen/docs and symlinks put in /usr/share/doc/bunsen-docs pointing to them.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-03-15 07:35:43

pvsage wrote:

damo wrote:
johnraff wrote:
......
And surely there's also a case for:
/usr/share/images/bunsen/asciiart
/usr/share/images/bunsen/icon-avatar
/usr/share/images/bunsen/login
/usr/share/images/bunsen/grub
.....
/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers
And for that last one: `/usr/share/images/bunsen/wallpapers/<wallpaper pack>`
If this were up to a vote, this would get mine, for whatever that's worth.

+1

xaos52 · 2016-03-15 15:47:07

I can live with that schema.

I have looked at other Debian derivatives - Kali, Xubuntu, Debian proper -
and I would suggest that a directory named 'images' contains nothing but images (.png, .jpg, etc ...)

In the derivatives that I have looked at, this is true for all 'images' directories, except for /usr/share/images/desktop-base - which is a Debian thing.

So my suggestion - FWIW - would be:

/usr/share/bunsen/asciiart # this is a text file
/usr/share/bunsen/icon-avatar/images/...
/usr/share/bunsen/login/images/...
/usr/share/bunsen/grub/images/...
/usr/share/bunsen/wallpapers/<wallpaper-pack>/images/...
//usr/share/bunsen/images/... # for 'other' images

So that, if we are in an images directory we know for sure that it contains nothing but images - with the one exception mentioned.

#1 2016-03-12 02:23:19

Background image install paths.

#2 2016-03-12 15:52:40

Re: Background image install paths.

#3 2016-03-13 01:29:59

Re: Background image install paths.

#4 2016-03-13 04:15:18

Re: Background image install paths.

#5 2016-03-13 05:18:54

Re: Background image install paths.

#6 2016-03-13 17:35:16

Re: Background image install paths.

#7 2016-03-13 17:41:01

Re: Background image install paths.

#8 2016-03-13 20:34:55

Re: Background image install paths.

#9 2016-03-13 20:41:40

Re: Background image install paths.

#10 2016-03-13 21:11:33

Re: Background image install paths.

#11 2016-03-13 21:28:21

Re: Background image install paths.

#12 2016-03-14 03:16:18

Re: Background image install paths.

#13 2016-03-14 08:09:38

Re: Background image install paths.

#14 2016-03-14 08:35:44

Re: Background image install paths.

#15 2016-03-14 10:28:02

Re: Background image install paths.

#16 2016-03-14 14:38:45

Re: Background image install paths.

#17 2016-03-15 02:28:44

Re: Background image install paths.

#18 2016-03-15 03:32:00

Re: Background image install paths.

#19 2016-03-15 07:35:43

Re: Background image install paths.

#20 2016-03-15 15:47:07

Re: Background image install paths.

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