Distro-hoppers anonymous

DeepDayze · 2021-11-21 00:31:07

PackRat wrote:

hhh wrote:
@PackRat, they both look great.
I think 15 will be a good release for Slackware. Zenwalk is based on Slackware current and just released an update based on 15. Big change for Zenwalk will be that this release has pipewire for sound by default; adios pulseaudio.

Now I gotta take a look at Slack again..that's where I got started with Linux. Had my share of bumps and bruises along the way but Slack was my roots.

Soon Debian and other distros will follow suit to make Pipewire the default and do away with PA completely.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-11-21 00:32:24)

PackRat · 2021-11-21 01:24:48

DeepDayze wrote:

Soon Debian and other distros will follow suit to make Pipewire the default and do away with PA completely.

I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.

DeepDayze · 2021-11-21 02:59:09

PackRat wrote:

DeepDayze wrote:
Soon Debian and other distros will follow suit to make Pipewire the default and do away with PA completely.
I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.

So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...

jeffreyC · 2021-11-21 12:10:08

DeepDayze wrote:

PackRat wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:
Soon Debian and other distros will follow suit to make Pipewire the default and do away with PA completely.
I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.
So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...

Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

DeepDayze · 2021-11-21 15:38:41

jeffreyC wrote:

DeepDayze wrote:
PackRat wrote:
I just switched to pipewire in Void. So far so good; although, not like I have a sophisticated sound system hooked up or do much sound/video editing.
So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...
Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

Yes I see that and Void Linux has a pretty new PW package, as @PackRat converted his PA setup to a complete PW one. Debian has a ways to go I can tell, but Sid has a fairly recent release.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-11-21 15:39:19)

PackRat · 2021-11-21 16:21:43

DeepDayze wrote:

jeffreyC wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:
So PW is getting pretty solid now to be a good replacement for PA. There should be instructions out there to do that. Right now PW is basically running on top of PA in Debian...
Researching this, as far as I can tell you really need a newer pipewire than the package in stable.
Whether you can just grab the one from testing without problems or would be better off backporting it I don't know.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.
Yes I see that and Void Linux has a pretty new PW package, as @PackRat converted his PA setup to a complete PW one. Debian has a ways to go I can tell, but Sid has a fairly recent release.

I'm running pipewire with alsa integration as per the Void handbook.. Always had better sound with alsa.

unklar · 2021-11-21 16:56:17

^^I can't for the life of me see where Debian is "behind" in terms of pipewire here.

pacman -Qi pipewire
Name                     : pipewire
Version                  : 1:0.3.40-1
Beschreibung             : Low-latency audio/video router and processor
Architektur              : x86_64
URL                      : https://pipewire.org
Lizenzen                 : MIT  LGPL
Gruppen                  : Nichts
Stellt bereit            : libpipewire-0.3.so=0-64
Hängt ab von             : rtkit  alsa-card-profiles  libdbus-1.so=3-64  libncursesw.so=6-64
                           libsndfile.so=1-64  libudev.so=1-64  libusb-1.0.so=0-64  libasound.so=2-64
                           libsystemd.so=0-64  libbluetooth.so=3-64  libsbc.so=1-64  libldacBT_enc.so=2-64
                           libfreeaptx.so=0-64  libfdk-aac.so=2-64  libwebrtc_audio_processing.so=1-64
Optionale Abhängigkeiten : pipewire-docs: Documentation
                           pipewire-session-manager: Session manager [Installiert]
                           pipewire-alsa: ALSA configuration
                           pipewire-jack: JACK support
                           pipewire-pulse: PulseAudio replacement
                           gst-plugin-pipewire: GStreamer plugin
                           pipewire-zeroconf: Zeroconf support
                           pipewire-v4l2: V4L2 interceptor
Benötigt von             : pipewire-media-session
Optional für             : qmmp  sdl2
In Konflikt mit          : Nichts
Ersetzt                  : Nichts
Installationsgröße       : 7,36 MiB
Packer                   : David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>
Erstellt am              : Do 11 Nov 2021 17:21:35 CET
Installiert am           : Fr 12 Nov 2021 11:29:41 CET
Installationsgrund       : Installiert als Abhängigkeit eines anderen Pakets
Installations-Skript     : Ja
Verifiziert durch        : Signatur

pipewire (0.3.40-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  * Team upload.
  * New upstream release
  * Drop patches included in upstream release:
     - fix_compilation_on_armel.patch
     - fix_compilation_on_some_architectures.patch
     - make_insert_at()_fail_on_a_removed_item.patch
     - fix_type_for_big_endian.patch
     - only_run_SSE_when_supported.patch
  * Install a new manpage for pipewire-pulse
  * Update symbols file

 -- Dylan Aïssi <daissi@debian.org>  Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:08:23 +0100

If I'm not mistaken you can already install pipewire in buster/bullseye. Only the packages are called differently there.

hhh · 2021-11-21 22:40:05

I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.

deleted0 · 2021-11-22 13:45:58

Lirix

https://caesar-rylan.60.nu/lirix/

MaXX Interactive Desktop on Archlinux.

8bit

DeepDayze · 2021-11-22 14:54:02

That looks pretty retro cool ^^

deleted0 · 2021-11-22 15:15:41

@ DeepDaze
"MaXX Interactive Desktop is the little brother of the great SGI Desktop on IRIX"

https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/

8bit

DeepDayze · 2021-11-22 15:40:55

eight.bit.al wrote:

@ DeepDaze
"MaXX Interactive Desktop is the little brother of the great SGI Desktop on IRIX"
https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/
8bit

Yes had worked on those, as well as CDE which looks similar, back in the day I supported a manufacturers's UNIX servers (AIX, IRIX, SCO). Fun times back then.

johnraff · 2021-11-23 02:05:26

hhh wrote:

I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.

What has improved, specifically?

jeffreyC · 2021-11-23 03:35:49

unklar wrote:

^^I can't for the life of me see where Debian is "behind" in terms of pipewire here.

pacman -Qi pipewire
Name                     : pipewire
Version                  : 1:0.3.40-1
Beschreibung             : Low-latency audio/video router and processor
Architektur              : x86_64
URL                      : https://pipewire.org
Lizenzen                 : MIT  LGPL
Gruppen                  : Nichts
Stellt bereit            : libpipewire-0.3.so=0-64
Hängt ab von             : rtkit  alsa-card-profiles  libdbus-1.so=3-64  libncursesw.so=6-64
                           libsndfile.so=1-64  libudev.so=1-64  libusb-1.0.so=0-64  libasound.so=2-64
                           libsystemd.so=0-64  libbluetooth.so=3-64  libsbc.so=1-64  libldacBT_enc.so=2-64
                           libfreeaptx.so=0-64  libfdk-aac.so=2-64  libwebrtc_audio_processing.so=1-64
Optionale Abhängigkeiten : pipewire-docs: Documentation
                           pipewire-session-manager: Session manager [Installiert]
                           pipewire-alsa: ALSA configuration
                           pipewire-jack: JACK support
                           pipewire-pulse: PulseAudio replacement
                           gst-plugin-pipewire: GStreamer plugin
                           pipewire-zeroconf: Zeroconf support
                           pipewire-v4l2: V4L2 interceptor
Benötigt von             : pipewire-media-session
Optional für             : qmmp  sdl2
In Konflikt mit          : Nichts
Ersetzt                  : Nichts
Installationsgröße       : 7,36 MiB
Packer                   : David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>
Erstellt am              : Do 11 Nov 2021 17:21:35 CET
Installiert am           : Fr 12 Nov 2021 11:29:41 CET
Installationsgrund       : Installiert als Abhängigkeit eines anderen Pakets
Installations-Skript     : Ja
Verifiziert durch        : Signatur

pipewire (0.3.40-1) unstable; urgency=medium

  * Team upload.
  * New upstream release
  * Drop patches included in upstream release:
     - fix_compilation_on_armel.patch
     - fix_compilation_on_some_architectures.patch
     - make_insert_at()_fail_on_a_removed_item.patch
     - fix_type_for_big_endian.patch
     - only_run_SSE_when_supported.patch
  * Install a new manpage for pipewire-pulse
  * Update symbols file

 -- Dylan Aïssi <daissi@debian.org>  Fri, 12 Nov 2021 22:08:23 +0100

If I'm not mistaken you can already install pipewire in buster/bullseye. Only the packages are called differently there.

Try looking in Debian Stable, it is pipewire 0.3.19-4 which is quite a few releases behind.
Bunsenlabs is based on Debian Stable, not unstable.

unklar · 2021-11-23 09:01:17

^^I hope you also noted in your full quotes that you are constantly comparing "arch-based distros" to Debian stable here.

The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.

That's like me comparing apples with oranges.
"Stable" is not a "rolling release".

DeepDayze · 2021-11-23 13:34:48

unklar wrote:

^^I hope you also noted in your full quotes that you are constantly comparing "arch-based distros" to Debian stable here.
The Arch based distros have been replacing PA with pipewire successfully, but they are quite a few pipewire releases ahead.
That's like me comparing apples with oranges.
"Stable" is not a "rolling release".

Arch and Debian Sid both seem to have the similarities in the package versions (even with different names). Stable usually has packages that are several releases behind (maybe with the exception of those backported).

hhh · 2021-11-23 19:41:57

johnraff wrote:

hhh wrote:
I've been using Pipewire, it's installed by default on Bullseye Xfce4. I use audacity and ardour, and everything seems smooth using the default congs (I haven't edited anything). Definitely an improvement over Buster with just PulseAudio.
What has improved, specifically?

Well, I've just installed ardour and jackd and am trying to configure ardour. lxtask shows that jack, pulse, pipewire and pipewire media session are all running. I can record to ardour from an external USB mic but don't have playback configured right.

So I'm looking at a YouTube video while Ardour us running, and I can hear the YouTube audio without disabling jackd or messing with any configs (very messy and time consuming for me on Buster). This is already a huge plus, and bodes well IMO!

Hmm, I'm talking out of my ass a bit. Pipewire is supposed to fool jack apps into thinking jack is running, jack shouldn't actually be running. I need to do more research.

Audacity now records my mono mic to a mono track, in Buster I had to record to stereo and then split the track to mono, but that might be an Audacity improvement.

Anyway, pipewire isn't hurting anything AFAICT, but isn't necessary for basic audio IMO. Wikipedia says it fixes pulse issues with high CPU useage and with bluetooth, but I haven't had those issues.

-update- I deleted pulseaudio and jackd, rebooted and sound is working just fine (without any additional configs shown in the Debian Wiki). Ardour thinks it's using jack, other devices think they're using alsa, all playing nicely together.

Last edited by hhh (2021-11-24 01:02:44)

unklar · 2021-11-24 10:07:59

hhh wrote:

-update- I deleted pulseaudio and jackd, rebooted and sound is working just fine (without any additional configs shown in the Debian Wiki). Ardour thinks it's using jack, other devices think they're using alsa, all playing nicely together.

^Thank you @hhh for taking the time to do this test.

Unfortunately, I didn't clearly understand which system you ran it on.
Here on the current [beryllium] I get:

LANG=C pactl info | grep '^Server Name' 
Server Name: pulseaudio

LANG=C apt policy pipewire pipewire-media-session wireplumber
pipewire:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.3.19-4
  Version table:
     0.3.19-4 500
        500 https://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages
N: Unable to locate package pipewire-media-session
N: Unable to locate package wireplumber

I admit that this warning

Debian-Wiki wrote:

Debian 11
As per Simon McVittie, "This is not a supported scenario for Debian 11, and is considered experimental."
It may break certain applications, lack certain functionality, or not work at all.

from the current wiki (2021-11-18) got into my bones, so I preferred to test and run this in siduction.
Complicating matters here was that the pipewire-media-session package was removed once for wireplumber and a few versions of pipewire further on, added back as a standalone package.

https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/ … _changelog
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw … ection=all

Last edited by unklar (2021-11-24 10:10:02)

ratcheer · 2021-11-24 15:17:13

Pipewire with Wireplumber is working great on my Arch Linux desktop system. pipewire-media-session is not installed (after it was removed for wireplumber).

Last edited by ratcheer (2021-11-24 15:19:11)

hhh · 2021-11-24 21:43:30

@unklar, if you're not trying to do live recordings with low-latency onto your hard drive, stick with pulse. It works just fine.

I am on Bullseye Xfce (and a BL session), if pipewire is not installed and you feel brave...

sudo apt install pipewire && sudo apt purge --autoremove pulseaudio pavucontrol jackd

Reboot and see what happens.

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