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#1326 2021-04-21 11:45:12

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 251

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

DeepDayze wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
sleekmason wrote:

Jwm is 529KB smile Can grab a basket of WM's and never get full.  big_smile

(and others who have commented on jwm)

True, and some Puppy users did install other WMs - a popular choice is / was IceWM, which does allow middle-clicking on the desktop to bring up a listing of all the open windows. The only problem I've found with IceWM (which I'm using at the moment in Bunsen, to prove a point) is that it looks "retro" and doesn't seem to have been updated for a while.

IceWM is pretty much the lightest of all the stacking WM's...anything lighter pretty much is mainly a tiler.

Sometimes the retro look is pretty pleasing to the old-timers, so IceWM deserves a place on your machine smile

Agreed, it's just that the themes IceWM packages as standard haven't changed in at least 10 years. The themes PackRat links to are good though (I'm using Mint Grey at the moment).

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-04-21 11:48:35)

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#1327 2021-04-21 11:47:34

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 251

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:

BTW, did anyone see the news that Slackware is back?

Saw that information on the Slackware forum at Linuxquestions. Good news.

And Slackware never left; you can always get the Slackware-cutrent iso. The Slackware "development" releases. Pretty stable.

It is; I generally keep Slackware or one of its spinoffs or distro derivatives (like Slackel) on my hard drive somewhere. Unlike Debian, there's no easy way to update the distro though, so you generally have to download a whole Slackware iso every time there's a new release.

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#1328 2021-04-21 14:16:06

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,209

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:

BTW, did anyone see the news that Slackware is back?

Saw that information on the Slackware forum at Linuxquestions. Good news.

And Slackware never left; you can always get the Slackware-cutrent iso. The Slackware "development" releases. Pretty stable.

Ahhh good ol' Slackware...first distro I cut my Linux teeth on waaaaay back in '93/'94 when I bought a thick book that had Slack 2.0 CD's inside. Fun times!

Last edited by DeepDayze (2021-04-21 14:16:56)


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#1329 2021-04-21 16:17:08

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,394

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Colonel Panic wrote:
PackRat wrote:

BTW, did anyone see the news that Slackware is back?

Saw that information on the Slackware forum at Linuxquestions. Good news.

And Slackware never left; you can always get the Slackware-cutrent iso. The Slackware "development" releases. Pretty stable.

It is; I generally keep Slackware or one of its spinoffs or distro derivatives (like Slackel) on my hard drive somewhere. Unlike Debian, there's no easy way to update the distro though, so you generally have to download a whole Slackware iso every time there's a new release.

slackpkg is pretty easy; can take a while tough.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#1330 2021-04-21 16:35:01

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,209

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
PackRat wrote:

Saw that information on the Slackware forum at Linuxquestions. Good news.

And Slackware never left; you can always get the Slackware-cutrent iso. The Slackware "development" releases. Pretty stable.

It is; I generally keep Slackware or one of its spinoffs or distro derivatives (like Slackel) on my hard drive somewhere. Unlike Debian, there's no easy way to update the distro though, so you generally have to download a whole Slackware iso every time there's a new release.

slackpkg is pretty easy; can take a while tough.

Slapt-get is another one for Slack. Works similar to apt-get on Debian.


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#1331 2021-04-21 17:26:37

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,394

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ Slakel uses slapt-get and maintains a repository with their sister project SalixOS. Both are excellent distros if anyone is looking to try Slackware.

ZenWalk switched to Slackware-current a couple years ago. They have their own package manager. Another excellent distro.

With Slackware 15 coming out SalixOS, Slakel, and ZenWalk will be worth keeping an eye on. Is July the month that Patrick likes to release new versions?


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#1332 2021-04-21 18:10:45

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ SalixOS is aesthetically attractive. I haven't used it enough to know much more than that, but it's very pleasing to the eye.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#1333 2021-04-21 19:21:56

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 251

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:

^ Slakel uses slapt-get and maintains a repository with their sister project SalixOS. Both are excellent distros if anyone is looking to try Slackware.

ZenWalk switched to Slackware-current a couple years ago. They have their own package manager. Another excellent distro.

With Slackware 15 coming out SalixOS, Slakel, and ZenWalk will be worth keeping an eye on. Is July the month that Patrick likes to release new versions?

(and others who have commented on this subject) If slapt-get and slackpkg are capable of carrying out full upgrades of Slackware, I'm happy to stand corrected.

Slackel and Zenwalk have both been updated several times since Slackware 14.2 came out, but Salix hasn't been; I'm not sure it's still being developed, though it's a visually attractive distro and it would be a shame were it to fall by the wayside.

Also worth a mention are Absolute, a Slackware respin which uses IceWM and I think I mentioned recently, and Slint, a French Slackware-based distro for partially sighted people.

https://slint.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=:en:start

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-04-21 19:45:00)

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#1334 2021-04-21 21:23:46

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,394

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

SalixOS is alive and well. A patient dev team waiting for next release:

Preparing for 15.0
2021-01-04
It seems like, finally, the pieces are being put in place for the next Slackware release. It has been a long wait, it will be 5 years since the 14.2 release in a few months. Since Salix releases are tied to Slackware releases, there hasn’t been a Salix release for a long while too. Major changes that the next Slackware release will introduce include a switch to PAM, Linux kernel 5.10.x, KDE Plasma 5 and, just last week, Xfce 4.16. I’m guessing there won’t be any other major changes to Slackware current and it will go into beta soon. That’s all just a guess though, as only Patrick Volkerding really knows what he has in mind.

I think Vector Linux is no longer active. Another good Slackware-based distro with a nice Xfce setup.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#1335 2021-04-21 22:22:54

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 251

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:

SalixOS is alive and well. A patient dev team waiting for next release:

Preparing for 15.0
2021-01-04
It seems like, finally, the pieces are being put in place for the next Slackware release. It has been a long wait, it will be 5 years since the 14.2 release in a few months. Since Salix releases are tied to Slackware releases, there hasn’t been a Salix release for a long while too. Major changes that the next Slackware release will introduce include a switch to PAM, Linux kernel 5.10.x, KDE Plasma 5 and, just last week, Xfce 4.16. I’m guessing there won’t be any other major changes to Slackware current and it will go into beta soon. That’s all just a guess though, as only Patrick Volkerding really knows what he has in mind.

I think Vector Linux is no longer active. Another good Slackware-based distro with a nice Xfce setup.

Thanks for the info about Salix.

Yes, Vector's gone unfortunately. They just didn't have enough devs with time to spend on the project. It was a nice distro while it lasted, and in its early days was a lot easier to install and set up than Slackware was although Slackware caught up to a large extent as the years went on.

I particularly liked VASM, the "Vector Administrative and Services Menu” which provided a means to manage all the distro's settings from one central interface. It's commonplace now but wasn't at the time Vector was first created (the early noughties I think).

[EDIT: I've now looked this up and the first release of Vector was in 1999.]

https://vectorlinux.readthedocs.io/en/l … /vasm.html

Some versions of Vector also had a handy little tool called vl-QwikPicks, which made it easy to locate and download apps by category; though this was dropped from the final versions for some reason.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-04-22 06:38:48)

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#1336 2021-04-22 19:47:30

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Xevuan stable is out. He had a rolling version out for a while, don't know what happened to it.
He changes his mind like the wind.

https://xevuan.org/

The live ISO hasn't any video firmware on it, so most video cards boot to 720 x 400.  O.o 
I've emailed him about it a few times. Whatever.

Artix Linux is a rolling-release distribution, based on Arch Linux.
It uses OpenRC, runit or s6 as init because PID1 must be simple, secure and stable.

https://artixlinux.org/

Nice. Fast. Light. Does what it sayz on the label.

Stock:
Artix0.th.png

My usual Xfce tweaks:

Artix1.th.png

Now for something completely different;

Pet Peeve: Distros the change the BIOS boot order during the install. 
Don't change anything I didn't ask for, is that so hard?
I know. I know. The noobs who manage to get your distro installed,
but can't think to remove the thumb drive when rebooting....

Leave my BIOS alone!!!  </rant mode>

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-04-22 19:51:49)


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#1337 2021-04-23 02:51:18

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,608
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

PackRat wrote:

BTW, did anyone see the news that Slackware is back?

Saw that information on the Slackware forum at Linuxquestions. Good news.

And Slackware never left; you can always get the Slackware-cutrent iso. The Slackware "development" releases. Pretty stable.

I knew a Linux purist would mention that they never left!

Links to the current betas in this DW post, I hope...

https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11210

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#1338 2021-04-23 02:57:20

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,608
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:

Pet Peeve: Distros the change the BIOS boot order during the install. 
Don't change anything I didn't ask for, is that so hard?
I know. I know. The noobs who manage to get your distro installed,
but can't think to remove the thumb drive when rebooting....

Leave my BIOS alone!!!  </rant mode>

8bit

Brain fart I think, I assume you mean the Grub boot order, which handles the order of the operating systems in your boot menu, and not your BIOS which only handles the order of the medium options on your computer that you can boot an OS from (local, USB, DVD/CD etc...) You can, of course, fix an overwritten grub by booting into your linux system of choice and running (example for an install on partition sda1 or any number, it's the a or b or c that's important) 'sudo grub-install /dev/sda' Don't add the number, whatever the last letter. Reboot.

Wait, there are installs that change the BIOS boot order from the hard drive to USB by default? Snap, you're complaining that you've customized your BIOS so the primary boot is from USB and now that you've installed, say, BunsenLabs (not sure if it's the case, but for example) it resets your BIOS to the hard disc as the primary one? Is there a distro that changes the system's BIOS? That sounds unlikely.

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#1339 2021-04-23 04:01:29

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

You can, of course, fix an overwritten grub by booting into your linux system of choice and running (example for an install on partition sda1 or any number, it's the a or b or c that's important) 'sudo grub-install /dev/sda' Don't add the number, whatever the last letter. Reboot.

Even better; keep a copy of MX Linux live on one of your thumb sticks and use it's repair grub tool to repair grub on any partition of choice; especially useful when your setup won't boot at all. Also handy for some slack derivatives (and others) that use LILO. 

Is there a distro that changes the system's BIOS? That sounds unlikely.

POP! OS for one I can remember off the top of my head. I haven't really kept track, happens so rarely.  But when you've installed hundreds of distros, you see it. I think it just happened on the HP Z440 with Archcraft, but that BIOS is so weird it's hard to say. Since that install, I can't get the BIOS to keep it's settings. POP! OS played havoc with that machine, I had to reflash the BIOS. I believe there was a reference to
POP! OS -> IN <- the BIOS, as one of the boot choices. Wish I'd kept notes.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-04-23 04:02:56)


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#1340 2021-04-23 04:10:33

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,608
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:

Even better; keep a copy of MX Linux live on one of your thumb sticks and use it's repair grub tool to repair grub on any partition of choice; especially useful when your setup won't boot at all. Also handy for some slack derivatives (and others) that use LILO.

Or else a copy of, um, you know, BunsenLabs Live.

I love that MX has gotten so popular, Steve P. used to be a frequent poster on these forums and shared many of his package rebuilds with us. If a Debian package of yours is not as recent as you'd like, check if MX has an updated version. They track Debian stable as well, so anything from their repos should work with no issues.

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#1341 2021-04-23 09:21:18

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,457

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^Honestly, I've never heard of a distr0 that changes the system BIOS either.
There were initially this crottig bad (U)efi implentation problems with Linux, which killed the BIOS e.g. in ThinkPads. Later I never heard about it again.

eight.bit.al wrote:

Even better; keep a copy of MX Linux live on one of your thumb sticks and use it's repair grub tool to repair grub on any partition of choice; especially useful when your setup won't boot at all. Also handy for some slack derivatives (and others) that use LILO.

You can also get the tool from the developer @BitJam directly, which in my opinion, is the best of its kind and also beats SuperGrubDisk by far.
Just put it on the disk of a multiboot system or on a stick and you don't have to worry if you crash Grub. You don't need to know the chroot commands anymore. big_smile
FftxJQZt.jpg

Last edited by unklar (2021-04-23 09:22:40)

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#1342 2021-04-24 03:11:12

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

Is there a distro that changes the system's BIOS? That sounds unlikely.

unklar wrote:

^Honestly, I've never heard of a distr0 that changes the system BIOS either.

BunsenLabs:

USB first up in the boot order:

IMG_20210423_211505641.th.jpg

Can't imagine anyone not using Ventoy:

IMG_20210423_211717513.th.jpg

Install in progress:

IMG_20210423_213143163.th.jpg

Install finished. Reboots to BL login with the thumb drive still in the machine:

IMG_20210423_214620528.th.jpg

Because, BL has changed the boot order:

IMG_20210423_214702185.th.jpg

Actually, Debian is the actor, not BL. Debian is aggressive like that. Will take over any and all swap partitions unless specifically told not to.

Told ya so. wink

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-04-24 03:12:54)


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#1343 2021-04-24 04:08:38

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,608
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Wait, that's not you workstation. I don't see any paint cans.

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#1344 2021-04-24 04:14:26

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,608
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:
hhh wrote:

Is there a distro that changes the system's BIOS? That sounds unlikely.

unklar wrote:

^Honestly, I've never heard of a distr0 that changes the system BIOS either.

BunsenLabs:

USB first up in the boot order:

https://scrot.cloud/images/2021/04/23/IMG_20210423_211505641.th.jpg

I actually noticed that on bullseye as well. I think it's Debian doing that and BL is just a victim. No idea what's going there otherwise, it's definitely weird.

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#1345 2021-04-24 04:19:22

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

I actually noticed that on bullseye as well. I think it's Debian doing that and BL is just a victim. No idea what's going there otherwise, it's definitely weird.

Agreed.

eight.bit.al wrote:

Actually, Debian is the actor, not BL. Debian is aggressive like that. Will take over any and all swap partitions unless specifically told not to.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-04-24 04:19:44)


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#1346 2021-04-24 04:37:51

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

It's probably the BIOS adding the new entry instead of the distro making the change.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#1347 2021-04-24 06:01:26

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 251

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Just downloaded Regolith and am using it now. It's a good concept and I really like the big and clear status bar at the bottom, but I don't think it's 100% stable yet (I've already had a white "screen of death" when I tried to launch something from the menu, though my experience of other distros suggests that my computer seems to be more prone to that happening than others may be). Still, it's worth a try if you like tiled window managers.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2021-04-24 06:04:37)

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#1348 2021-04-24 09:45:36

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,457

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

eight.bit.al wrote:

Actually, Debian is the actor, not BL. Debian is aggressive like that. Will take over any and all swap partitions unless specifically told not to.

Told ya so. wink

Thanks for your effort @eight.bit.al

However, you are mistaken.
Not only Linux does this, but also the M$ Window.

UEFI provides its own boot manager, which makes loading boot loaders for UEFI-supported file systems possible. The management of a set boot entries already in the platform firmware is the objective of the UEFI boot manager.[2] This menu allows selection of all UEFI conformant boot media that are available to the system. For this, the boot loader sequence is stored in the persistent NVRAM.

Source

You can see it as a feature or as a BUG of the uefi-firmware. The opinions go there in this regard apart.
Solution of the problem should be efibootmgrsmile

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#1349 2021-04-24 11:08:58

el_koraco
Member
Registered: 2016-02-08
Posts: 93

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

this is a very windowsy move by Debian.

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#1350 2021-04-25 00:36:28

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 945

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Clear Linux OS - Intel's own Linux.
https://clearlinux.org/

UEFI firmware only. Strike one. Gnome only. Strike two.

Optimized for Intel hardware. The fastest Linux ¹ - sorry, Arch and Gentoo users.

Even AMD recommends running benchmarks of its new CPUs
under Clear Linux in order to get the highest scores.

Default desktop:
clear-start.th.png

No Appearance section, no dark mode. Strike three:
clear0.th.png

At least all the apps are on one page:
clear1.th.png

clear3.th.png

clear5.th.png

clear4.th.png


¹ https://openbenchmarking.org/result/200 … &obr_sor=y
Scroll down the page a good bit. Benchmarks are a bit old.

8bit

edit: nice, simple installer, pleasure to work with.

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-04-25 00:37:51)


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