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#1076 2020-10-28 14:37:34

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

FWIW I think current manjaro software is very nice.  HOWEVER, the Manjaro Forums are among the Grumpiest places around.  wink  It's perplexing.

I like your Forums the best (plenty of good geeks over on AL running all manner of non-standard wms).  These are nice as well....

Ah, such are the travails of wandering geeks.

Last edited by manyroads (2020-10-28 15:09:19)


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
dwm on Debian/Devuan (non-systemd) /arch ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#1077 2020-10-28 16:42:39

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,755
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ It's a conscious effort on our part, one that I've tried to instill since the #! forums. No one is too n00b, no distro is the wrong distro to run if you get it running. I was always completely perplexed by the elitism of most of the distro forums (Arch and Debian back in the day, especially). New users asking for info and getting hammered for one reason or another. And then the forum wonders when "The Year of the Linux Desktop" will arrive.

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#1078 2020-10-29 04:40:14

Dobbie03
Resident Metalhead
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,686
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

manyroads wrote:

HOWEVER, the Manjaro Forums are among the Grumpiest places around

I have not experienced that myself, though it has been many a year since I participated at the forum there.  The recent blow up with Jonathan there and the mass exodus confirms what you say.

I like your Forums the best (plenty of good geeks over on AL running all manner of non-standard wms).  These are nice as well....

That is something I wanted to bring with me from this incredible gathering of great people.  This is without a doubt one of the nicest and friendliest forums I have been involved with, I wanted my forum to reflect this.  I think we achieved that.  We have weeded out the shit stirrers and the horrible people (not that we had many) and we now just have good people who contribute.  Just like here.

I'd love to see some of the hardcore BL'ers testing out Nates wm.  It's the damn business.


One of the ArchLabs dudes
Obssesive Metalhead and practiced beer drinker
\m/
Dobbie's Suckless

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#1079 2020-10-29 17:30:41

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I have been building a dwm based Devuan-ceres (unstable) desktop of late.  It is built using MiyoLinux as the base ( Openbox/Devuan-ceres)

So far so good.... I have a dual headed OB-dwm rolling non-systemd "debian" setup.


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
dwm on Debian/Devuan (non-systemd) /arch ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#1080 2020-10-29 17:42:36

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,031

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

manyroads wrote:

I have been building a dwm based Devuan-ceres (unstable) desktop of late.  It is built using MiyoLinux as the base ( Openbox/Devuan-ceres)

So far so good.... I have a dual headed OB-dwm rolling non-systemd "debian" setup.

How is the performance with that systemd-less setup?


Real Men Use Linux

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#1081 2020-10-29 19:18:45

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@DeepDayze... I prefer to live in a non-systemd world, if possible.  The spirit of most wms is minimalism; I like that. 

I have no problem having MX, antiX, Devuan all idle at about 300MB with either OB or dwm.  Now if you add dropbox and a browser with a few tabs... memory 'evaporates' fast.  A fully loaded dwm (ff,dropbox, conky, .... with everything) and systemd runs at about 2.5GB; without systemd I run at just under 2GB.  In either environment, you can plan to see an addition ~ 500MB for each open browser tab, after the first.

Because I have 24GB on all my laptops, memory isn't really the issue for me.  I simply find non-systemd 'faster subjectively' and more fun.


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
dwm on Debian/Devuan (non-systemd) /arch ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#1082 2020-10-30 17:43:22

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,305

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Dobbie03 wrote:

I'd love to see some of the hardcore BL'ers testing out Nates wm.  It's the damn business.

+1 for dk. Nate does awesome work, and window manager hopping is more fun than distro hopping monkey

Distro hopped to ArchLabs almost 3 years ago just to see what Dobbie was cooking up and have it installed on at least one machine ever since:

dk window manager, ArchLabs -

3k3xqP.th.png

link to full image

Last edited by PackRat (2020-10-30 17:48:25)


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#1083 2020-10-30 18:12:44

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,283

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

manyroads wrote:

...
I have no problem having MX, antiX, Devuan all idle at about 300MB with either OB or dwm.
...

I think it is one of those legends about systemd being "heavier" than sysVinit in memory consumption.

On the left you see helium and on the right lithium in idle around 300MB.
More questions?  big_smile
helium_lithium_Vergleich.th.png
Link

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#1084 2020-10-30 23:29:28

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,755
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Well, to be fair, when your total RAM at idle is under 400MiB, a 130MiB difference appears significant.

But as I've said before, open Inkscape, LibreOffice Writer and Firefox and the difference becomes fairly trivial.

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#1085 2020-10-31 03:02:42

cog
Developer
From: The Southwest
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 534
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^totally agree


The worst day of fishing is better than the best day at work.

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#1086 2020-10-31 09:47:17

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,283

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

hhh wrote:

Well, to be fair, when your total RAM at idle is under 400MiB, a 130MiB difference appears significant.

^it can be seen that the ~130MB are NOT caused by systemd ?  tongue

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#1087 2020-10-31 12:59:42

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,026

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Ideally, systems should not use as little RAM as possible but use as much RAM as possible efficiently without sacrificing data integrity (it's volatile after all)...it's really fast after all. My next system will have 32G (if laptop) or more (if desktop) RAM and I intend to use every bit of it. The small RAMs of the past were a function of a set of limitations only. I would never recommend a new PC to have less than 16G of RAM today...else it's obsolete as soon as it's left the factory floor. Prices do not justify low RAM anymore, so get more.


Per aspera ad astra.

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#1088 2020-10-31 14:31:45

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,031

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

twoion wrote:

Ideally, systems should not use as little RAM as possible but use as much RAM as possible efficiently without sacrificing data integrity (it's volatile after all)...it's really fast after all. My next system will have 32G (if laptop) or more (if desktop) RAM and I intend to use every bit of it. The small RAMs of the past were a function of a set of limitations only. I would never recommend a new PC to have less than 16G of RAM today...else it's obsolete as soon as it's left the factory floor. Prices do not justify low RAM anymore, so get more.

Well said and my latest build has 64GB RAM and even *cough* Windows *cough* is happy with that much to play with smile


Real Men Use Linux

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#1089 2020-10-31 19:39:33

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

FWIW... I have been running dwm for a day or so on MX (non-systemd Debian).  Without Dropbox running a one browser window (FF) the system operates between 0.9 and 1.6GB of RAM (I got about the same running on Devuan (ceres) test partition; both run about 1 GB less than an identically configured manjaro (arch-systemd system).  I have not run on a Debian based systemd system...

BTW... I have found a pretty easy way to save some RAM.  I feel dumb for not having thought of this before--> use light wallpaper backgrounds. If you keep them below 1MB you can still get nice images and save some MB.


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
dwm on Debian/Devuan (non-systemd) /arch ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#1090 2020-11-01 09:34:01

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,019
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

The RAM/resources comparison comes up every now and then, and most people completely ignore the fact that lightweight WMs tend to have more additional utilities running besides it, to provide hotkeys, a menu, a panel etc.
Of course that makes a useful comparison much harder...
So I fire up Firefox to post about it online: my WM use 10MB less than yours! - meanwhile FF eats up a whole Gigabyte just like that.
big_smile


Search youtube without a brwoser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

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#1091 2020-11-01 15:10:06

manyroads
Member
From: around here, somewhere
Registered: 2019-04-16
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Exactly true... which is why I attempt only to provide equivalent comparison (hardware platform identical- running separate partitions on the same machine at the same time) identical apps running, identical functions.  But no matter what you do there is no way to remove all variables. 

What we can say is that active browser 'tabs' eat tons of memory.  The skinniest browser running 5 opens windows for the same sites against one of the big boys (FF,Chrome...) with identical tabs & windows will be roughly the same size (the initial browser footprint size impact on the total, percentage of the whole, shrinks with the increase in active tabs). Other potentially extravagant memory consumers include flatpaks, snaps, appimages, wallpapers, themes, fonts, icons.... ad nauseum

Nonetheless people want and ask for comparisons.  Sadly, there's only so much that can be provided.  In the end, people have to ask themselves if the price (cost) is worth the benefit(s).  The answer will vary from person to person.


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
dwm on Debian/Devuan (non-systemd) /arch ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#1092 2020-11-02 14:18:11

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 316

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I installed FreeBSD 12.2 on my old PC, yesterday. The installation was quick and easy.

I will probably reinstall it today, in order to use ZFS. I don't know why I didn't choose it the first time.

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#1093 2020-11-05 03:44:33

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,755
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Pic or it didn't happen.

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#1094 2020-11-05 13:26:39

Colonel Panic
Member
Registered: 2018-11-13
Posts: 185

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I've not been impressed with the latest versions of Ubuntu that I've tried (the 20.x series), but all the same I've recently installed the latest version of Bodhi, 5.1, and if you like "eye candy" I can recommend it. It has a very slick desktop based on Enlightenment with a green default theme, and a terminal called Terminology with a flashing cursor, so it all looks very good.

Last edited by Colonel Panic (2020-11-05 13:27:13)

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#1096 2020-11-06 03:35:32

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,755
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ I'm a huge fan of green, the default theming is beautiful.

Their Lithium video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZKGVfkOFYY

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#1097 2020-11-06 22:11:34

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,019
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

+1 for a terminal with a flashing cursor!


Search youtube without a brwoser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

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#1098 2020-11-11 19:50:55

unklar
Member
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,283

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

2020-11-11

plasma5.19(debian-Repos) FYunVOZt.png plasma5.20(Preining-Repos) 8ADYmFEt.png

5.19

inxi -r
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extra.list
           1: deb http://packages.siduction.org/extra unstable main
           2: deb-src http://packages.siduction.org/extra unstable main
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/palemoon.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/siduction.list
           1: deb http://packages.siduction.org/fixes unstable main contrib non-free
           2: deb-src http://packages.siduction.org/fixes unstable main contrib non-free 

5.20

inxi -r
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dbgsym.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extra.list
           1: deb http://packages.siduction.org/extra unstable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/fixes.list
           1: deb https://packages.siduction.org/fixes unstable main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/obs-npreining-kde.list
           1: deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/other-deps/Debian_Unstable/ ./
           2: deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/frameworks/Debian_Unstable/ ./
           3: deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/apps2008/Debian_Unstable/ ./
           4: deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/plasma520/Debian_Unstable/ ./
           5: deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/other/Debian_Unstable/ ./

Last edited by unklar (2020-11-12 07:49:46)

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#1099 2020-11-11 22:14:33

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 10,755
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

ohnonot wrote:

+1 for a terminal with a flashing cursor!

Lol, I like non-flashing. Different strokes for different folks, literally. Well, really close. Different cursors for different persons.

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#1100 2020-11-13 03:48:45

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,414
Website

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Ran into this today -  a fork of KDE3, still currently maintained, the Trinity desktop:
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/index.php

Did a quick install on a Debian netinstall VM, and it worked, used ~250MB RAM out of its allocated 1GB, but definitely a bit retro. (And don't try to use Konqueror to browse the web.) Might be interesting to check out...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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