You are not logged in.

#26 2016-01-19 07:41:35

nobody0
Disabled account
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The main purpose of a live disk (beyond checking hardware compatibility) is system maintenance/repair and anonymous browsing (ie, internet banking).

And, whether it is worth installing.

Offline

#27 2016-01-19 08:28:22

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,638
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

i wondered myself sometimes why all people seem to demand a big and unwieldy office suite like libre office.
abiword would do just fine for inclusion into the .iso.
otoh, network bandwidth and usb sticks sizes are not a big issue these days, and why not include something that is slightly less than trivial to install.
tbh, i don't remember whether libreoffice writer was installed from the beginning; it is now, but all the other elements (calc, impress...) are not. i think that's an acceptable default.


BL quote proposals to this thread please.
how to ask smart questions | my repos / my repos | my blog
---
Thank you for posting direct image links!

Offline

#28 2016-01-19 08:35:31

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,051

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

IIRC including LO Writer was a compromise (as is everything!). Most didn't want the whole suite, but there is the argument that Writer improves the functionality of the Live iso (reading M$ docs), and is an example of what the distro could do.


Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

Offline

#29 2016-01-19 11:19:53

pvsage
Internal Affairs
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,433

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

To put the Abiword sidebar to bed, I just installed it on my system to confirm that its UI still has problems (most likely a hardware acceleration issue).  Adjust the margins and the rulers get obscured; same thing happens if I type more than one line of text.  Not exactly behavior I'd associate with an application that "works well".


Be excellent to each other, and...party on, dudes!
BunsenLabs Forum Rules
Tending and defending the Flame since 2009

Offline

#30 2016-01-19 11:48:35

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

damo wrote:

IIRC including LO Writer was a compromise (as is everything!). Most didn't want the whole suite, but there is the argument that Writer improves the functionality of the Live iso (reading M$ docs), and is an example of what the distro could do.

OK, that makes sense.

I just wasn't aware that people were using live USB sticks to work with WYSIWYG work processors and docx files.

EDIT: How do they save their documents if they use LO Writer in the live environment?
hmm

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-01-19 11:49:54)


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#31 2016-01-19 11:59:27

Unia
Octo-portal-pussy
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 355
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

EDIT: How do they save their documents if they use LO Writer in the live environment?
hmm

In the cloud, man


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

Offline

#32 2016-01-19 12:01:44

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ lol.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2016-01-19 12:16:20)


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#33 2016-01-19 12:15:58

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 767

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

My 2 cents:

Why would someone run Live BL? IMHO, mainly for three reasons:
1) to see how it looks, and whether it supports his/her hardware
2) to do quick "edit-and-run" documents/images/whatever, on possibly unsecured/compromised (read: M$) system
3) to attempt serious data rescue (although, then I would use grml or other specialized distro)

I argue that in both 1) and 2), the LO-Writer, LO-Calc and LO-Impress are a must (along with PDF viewer, image viewer, audio/video viewer, text editor, IceWeasel ... and perhaps some simple image editor). Either as a show case, or to do 'bussines'.

(Personally, I always keep with me an USB with BL ISO, either for 1) or 2), and sometimes for simple data rescue. Irrespective the fact that I don't use BL on my production comp ...)

So, please, keep the LO-Writer/Calc/Impress in Live BL. I think it make more sense.

OTOH, BL could offer two ISOs: one with and other without LO in Live BL ... I don't know how much more effort is required for this ...


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

Offline

#34 2016-01-19 12:17:13

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 767

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

EDIT: How do they save their documents if they use LO Writer in the live environment?
hmm

Save it in Live Environment, and then email it somewhere via webmail?


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

Offline

#35 2016-01-19 12:19:11

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

iMBeCil wrote:

OTOH, BL could offer two ISOs: one with and other without LO in Live BL ... I don't know how much more effort is required for this ...

This would be my preferred option, a few ISO images from the very light weight to the fully-featured swiss-army knife approach.

Obviously, the real issue here is the effort required.

I think I may need to learn how to build live ISO images neutral

@hhh: what dox are you following?


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

Forum Rules   •   How to report a problem   •   Software that rocks

Offline

#36 2016-01-19 13:10:33

perchslayer
Member
From: Auburn, California - US
Registered: 2016-01-12
Posts: 115
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

ohnonot wrote:

i wondered myself sometimes why all people seem to demand a big and unwieldy office suite like libre office.
abiword would do just fine for inclusion into the .iso.
otoh, network bandwidth and usb sticks sizes are not a big issue these days, and why not include something that is slightly less than trivial to install.
tbh, i don't remember whether libreoffice writer was installed from the beginning; it is now, but all the other elements (calc, impress...) are not. i think that's an acceptable default.

*ALL* people?! Really? Was there a survey? If so, I missed it. So there is one (1).

But here is a thought: Let's say you had a non-profit. And you had a list of 1000 folks or so. And you needed to do a mail merge. Is AbiWord gonna get you there? Or, for that matter, is the crap formerly known as Kingsoft?

Yes, Ubuntu took "marketing for inclusion" to the "Dark Side" to be sure. But that doesn't mean you need to potentially miss or even alienate the folks in the real world who actually do office stuff on a daily basis.


Roland Shield
Grill Jockey, Lounge Maven, Unrepentant Agitator
ass.clown@perchslayer.com | "...'ere I am, J.H."

Offline

#37 2016-01-19 13:26:34

eight.bit.al
Member
From: The State of Bliss
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 537

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Is it possible sensible to put everything in the live desktop and two install scripts on the .iso; one that installs a minimum base and one that installs the full Monty?

8bit

Edit:  Or even two (chose one) live desktops?

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2016-01-19 13:38:37)


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.

Offline

#38 2016-01-19 14:04:42

nobody0
Disabled account
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Why would someone run a Live iso?

iMBeCil wrote:

1) to see how it looks, and whether it supports his/her hardware

And, also to see whether it could be run in your language.

Offline

#39 2016-01-19 14:56:13

perchslayer
Member
From: Auburn, California - US
Registered: 2016-01-12
Posts: 115
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

ostrolek wrote:

Why would someone run a Live iso?

iMBeCil wrote:

1) to see how it looks, and whether it supports his/her hardware

And, also to see whether it could be run in your language.

Precisely! I ran the live Bunsen Labs to first find out 2 things: If I was going to have to go through b43 driver nightmare that I went though the last time around about 4 years ago. And also to see what is what with printers.


Roland Shield
Grill Jockey, Lounge Maven, Unrepentant Agitator
ass.clown@perchslayer.com | "...'ere I am, J.H."

Offline

#40 2016-01-19 14:59:57

perchslayer
Member
From: Auburn, California - US
Registered: 2016-01-12
Posts: 115
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Here is a general question I have: If there is a cadre of folks that are not happy with the Bunsen Labs decisions process regarding software inclusion and they are really all about "lean and mean", then why are they not running, say, Slackware? Or Arch Linux? Or better still, "Roll-Your-Own" where they can pick and choose and compile each and every stinking bash command that they deem as worthy and leave out the rest?

As my buddies in the Big Boys (Austin Punk Band of the 80s) used to say: "Sk8 Tough or Go Home" and "Get Your Own Band".

<grin>

Last edited by perchslayer (2016-01-19 15:00:31)


Roland Shield
Grill Jockey, Lounge Maven, Unrepentant Agitator
ass.clown@perchslayer.com | "...'ere I am, J.H."

Offline

#41 2016-01-19 16:23:50

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,155

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

perchslayer wrote:

*ALL* people?! Really? Was there a survey? If so, I missed it. So there is one (1).

I think ohnonot was referring to "all people" in the "proverbial sense" and not literally meaning every person on the planet.


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#42 2016-01-19 16:25:30

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,155

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

eight.bit.al wrote:

Is it possible sensible to put everything in the live desktop and two install scripts on the .iso; one that installs a minimum base and one that installs the full Monty?

8bit

Edit:  Or even two (chose one) live desktops?

Does that now.  It's called: apt-get install   devil
{OK, I'm outta-here}


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#43 2016-01-19 17:47:34

perchslayer
Member
From: Auburn, California - US
Registered: 2016-01-12
Posts: 115
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Sector11 wrote:
perchslayer wrote:

*ALL* people?! Really? Was there a survey? If so, I missed it. So there is one (1).

I think ohnonot was referring to "all people" in the "proverbial sense" and not literally meaning every person on the planet.

....Or rather, "all people" = all who are not ohnonot. And such a vim construct (pardon the double-entendre) would certainly, by design, be a construct for conflict---early and often.


Roland Shield
Grill Jockey, Lounge Maven, Unrepentant Agitator
ass.clown@perchslayer.com | "...'ere I am, J.H."

Offline

#44 2016-01-19 19:55:02

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 4,638
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

perchslayer wrote:
ohnonot wrote:

i wondered myself sometimes why all people seem to demand a big and unwieldy office suite like libre office.

*ALL* people?! Really? Was there a survey?

please let me elaborate:
i was refering to quite a few reviews of various distros on random blogs over the years. many of them go through some sort of checklist for what software already has to be present on the .iso: there's the browser, there's the media player, there's the office suite. all i'm saying is, i can relate to the first 2 but not to the last. doesn't mean i need to be right.

that said, i take pvsage's word that abiword is not ready yet, and i think having lowriter only preinstalled is just fine.

various .isos? really??? c'mon!

Last edited by ohnonot (2016-01-19 19:58:09)


BL quote proposals to this thread please.
how to ask smart questions | my repos / my repos | my blog
---
Thank you for posting direct image links!

Offline

#45 2016-01-19 22:07:52

pvsage
Internal Affairs
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,433

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Unia wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

EDIT: How do they save their documents if they use LO Writer in the live environment?
hmm

In the cloud, man

Or possibly a second thumb drive?  Most ia32 and amd64 computers have more than one free USB port.


Be excellent to each other, and...party on, dudes!
BunsenLabs Forum Rules
Tending and defending the Flame since 2009

Offline

#46 2016-01-20 01:00:52

KrunchTime
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 857

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

hhh wrote:

What a stupid criticism, "They included package X and left out package Y."

Was that directed at me, and if so, I'm not sure from where it's coming?  I don't believe I made any criticism at all (shrugs).

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Can you explain it to me then please because I don't understand sad

The main purpose of a live disk (beyond checking hardware compatibility) is system maintenance/repair and anonymous browsing (ie, internet banking).

Uh...I can't say how many, but there might be some who use it for anonymity (not just browsing) or to use on another computer that doesn't belong to them.

I guess in the end the devs have to decide who the target audience is for the Live ISO, even though not everyone will be happy with the decision.  You'll never get everyone to agree on everything.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2016-01-20 01:13:08)

Offline

#47 2016-01-20 02:32:22

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 9,904
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

KrunchTime wrote:
hhh wrote:

What a stupid criticism, "They included package X and left out package Y."

Was that directed at me, and if so, I'm not sure from where it's coming?

No, it's directed at the DW commenter (LibreOffice Suite is included in many major distros), and a little at everyone in general. We've discussed package selection at length and made our compromises, including the LibreOffice word processor is a good one. We're not going for mean-and-lean OOTB, we're going for fully functional but modular so you can strip it out however you like. It's always been part of "the plan" to offer CD-sized ISOs after the Release, those images will have a much more minimal package base.

re: using a word processor on a Live CD, I've posted steps to create a USB with persistence...
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 6974#p6974

Online

#48 2016-01-20 03:07:56

tknomanzr
BL Die Hard
From: Around the Bend
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,029

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

To me, the default package selection is such a small concern as compared to building up the correct functionality in the core system. If I dont like a program I will ditch it and go get one that I do. It just seems odd to me to bikeshed a word processor program when there is other stuff which should take priority.

Offline

#49 2016-01-20 05:30:18

KrunchTime
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 857

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

hhh wrote:
KrunchTime wrote:
hhh wrote:

What a stupid criticism, "They included package X and left out package Y."

Was that directed at me, and if so, I'm not sure from where it's coming?

No, it's directed at the DW commenter (LibreOffice Suite is included in many major distros), and a little at everyone in general. We've discussed package selection at length and made our compromises, including the LibreOffice word processor is a good one. We're not going for mean-and-lean OOTB, we're going for fully functional but modular so you can strip it out however you like. It's always been part of "the plan" to offer CD-sized ISOs after the Release, those images will have a much more minimal package base.

re: using a word processor on a Live CD, I've posted steps to create a USB with persistence...
https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 6974#p6974

Thank you for the clarification.

Offline

#50 2016-01-20 05:50:07

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 6,970
Website

Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

hhh wrote:

We've discussed package selection at length and made our compromises...

...at length for truth!!

And note:

It's always been part of "the plan" to offer CD-sized ISOs after the Release, those images will have a much more minimal package base.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB