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#1 2016-01-15 21:20:24

kimlik66
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Registered: 2016-01-15
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DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Hi all;
I just saw some positive comments about bunsenlabs linux and i thought i should share with you as i hope it may contribute to further improve the distro.
The comments in question are posted on DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 643, 11 January 2016
Look for the following comments: #72, #75, #77 and #78.
I'm a newbie. Accordingly please accept my apologies in case i have posted this topic in a wrong section of the forum.

Last edited by kimlik66 (2016-01-16 20:03:02)

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#2 2016-01-15 21:31:14

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ Thanks for the heads-up kimlik66!
smile

See also comment #85 big_smile

Mod Note: Merged with pre-existing BunsenLabs Reviews thread.


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#3 2016-01-15 22:50:38

perchslayer
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

In regards to the comments on #72, as a newbie, I am trying to understand the "idea", the "gravitas", and the "cut-off" point (yea, especially that), when it comes to "bloatware". Is it a matter of degrees? Is it, rather, the inclusion of a "type" of package or application?

Reference:

#72 wrote:

... However, BunsenLabs developers have, by bundling their distro with LibreOffce - one of the most bloated Linux application - partially ruined such a, indeed, promising super light and speedy distro....Despite this terrible blunder......and BunsenLabs were to, either, drop bloatware or, at least, release an edition without it.

With the above, as I recall, it ONLY installed the Writer package and not the rest of LibreOffice, which is optional. So, what gives? Are the Linux purists insulted that someone would have the unmitigated audacity to include a text editor that is not emacs or vim ? Or what?! Can any of the annoited explain this? I am only a country doctor, Jim.


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#4 2016-01-15 23:35:38

tknomanzr
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

The LibreOffice Suite is available for install via a pipe menu for those who are interested in it. As HoaS pointed out, it is not actually bundled with the iso. As for Writer, no idea really, as I don't use it and actually had forgotten it was installed. I use geany for roughly 90% of my text editing. But it doesn't matter really. If I had need of an office type suite I would install it and use it. People who complain about the bloat for LO though ought to have a good hard look at the amount of legacy code in Microsoft Office. I used to develop a lot of Office applications and the legacy code, none of which is marked deprecated anywhere, was a huge headache to navigate around.

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#5 2016-01-16 02:17:38

johnraff
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

LO Writer is installed by default, without recommends, and it doesn't add all that much bloat, certainly compared with installing the full LO suite. Of course it's not a text editor for code ala geany, but for writing documents, a quite different job with formatting, fonts, margins, image inserts... Another reason for having LO Writer is that it can open Microsoft .doc files, which non-Linux users are going to be sending you at times. neutral


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#6 2016-01-16 07:47:33

pvsage
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ Besides, what alternatives are there to LO Writer?  (Don't say "Abiword"; that's been broken for a while now, and there doesn't seem to be any rush to fix it.)


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#7 2016-01-16 09:58:43

Martin
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Lyx is a favourite of mine for 'word processing'.

A slightly odd-ball alternative maybe: Org-mode for emacs. Org-mode is amazing. It can be your get-things-done tool, your document editor with export to html, or LaTeX or pdf or..., it can be you programming environment, it supports Literate programming and the way it does this means you can have indata, live code (several languages are supported), results and documenting text in the document. Check it out and have fun.

I didn't notice LO Writer was installed by default. That may explain some odd antics of my LO install. Since having a bad experience with distro-supplied OO many years ago I have made it a habit to install OO/LO gotten directly from the 'horse's mouth'. I am purging my computer from LO and reinstalling as I write.

Done, problem solved!

/Martin


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#8 2016-01-16 10:18:15

pvsage
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ Continuing the LO sidebar, I've found Lyx to be even more daunting than Ventura Publisher was back in the days of the GEM interface.  If Lyx (or any LaTEX layout program) had a remotely intuitive UI, then it would definitely get my vote over LO Writer.  Sadly, most LaTEX developers seem to assume -- incorectly -- that anyone who wants to make a newsletter or a brochure is fluent in vi keybindings. hmm


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#9 2016-01-16 10:59:40

Martin
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

LaTeX is not the tool for newsletters or brochures. It was never ment to be. To me it sounds like you are looking for a layout tool like Scribus.

I have never felt like I had to memorize key-bindings to use LyX. It uses the standard click-on-menu-item paradigm to do most things. Some specific typographical tricks calls for a bit of undiluted LaTeX code inserted into the document but you can use LyX without knowing anything about LaTeX.

Org-mode on the other hand is all about (odd) key-bindings...

/Martin


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#10 2016-01-16 11:07:51

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

+1 for Scribus but DTP != WYSIWYG word processing != LaTeX

Different tools for different tasks.

Obviously, if document quality is paramount then LaTeX is the only way to go but IMO most users will something that feels like Word.

EDIT: Also, I checked my (old) live ISO and LibreOffice was an "install" menu option so I presumed it wasn't installed as standard.

Was I mistaken there?


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#11 2016-01-16 11:22:57

pvsage
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ No, you were not.  LO Writer is part of the standard install; the full LO suite (including calc and impress) is a post-install option.


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#12 2016-01-16 11:23:16

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Ah! Thank you smile


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#13 2016-01-16 12:25:43

Sector11
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

There's: calligra

But if LO is bloat ... how does one classify that?  I did a

sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends --simulate calligra

OH MY!!  yikes


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#14 2016-01-16 19:02:33

ututo
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

I'm one of those who appreciate the fact of having LO Writer installed by default. If it wasn't that way I would install it anyways. Same thing for Calc. But, perhaps for those who don't want it installed by default, each item of the LOffice suit could be a post-install option.


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#15 2016-01-16 19:12:01

damo
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

ututo wrote:

... perhaps for those who don't want it installed by default, each item of the LOffice suit could be a post-install option.

They are wink  See Menu -> Office -> LibreOffice -> Install

angel  angel  cool


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#16 2016-01-16 20:13:39

ututo
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

damo wrote:

They are wink  See Menu -> Office -> LibreOffice -> Install

yeah yeah, I know. You can install it via openbox-menu.But writer comes installed by default. I think it is a good idea to give the option to install all of the components in that way (including writer) for those who don't want libre-office (caligra, abiword, etc...) OOTB.


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#17 2016-01-16 20:22:40

kimlik66
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Really pity that LibreOffice is a hopeless mammoth of piece of bloatware.
Try FreeOffice and see the difference!
It's like day and night smile

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#18 2016-01-16 21:39:10

pvsage
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

^ FreeOffice is not in the Debian repos, so it really doesn't sit well with our overall goal of becoming a Debian Pure Blend.


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#19 2016-01-17 00:03:54

Martin
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

I cannot install FreeOffice on BL. It worked fine on #! but now it misses a library I can't find: ia32-libs. "Unsatisfiable".

/Martin


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#20 2016-01-17 00:38:43

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Martin wrote:

can't find: ia32-libs. "Unsatisfiable"

Try this:

sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 && sudo apt update

& compile it again.

https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO


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#21 2016-01-17 07:11:17

kimlik66
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

^ Thanks for the heads-up kimlik66!
smile
See also comment #85 big_smile
Mod Note: Merged with pre-existing BunsenLabs Reviews thread.

Yes i read your response and i was happy to see it had generated more comments/publicity afterward on distrowatch smile
You probably have already read all those comments too, but (just in case) i decided to quote here the below-stated DiSTROWATCH comment#83 as (in my opinion) it has an outstanding feedback value in terms of improving the distro furthermore.

Distrowatch comment #83 wrote:

Or Mint LXLE? Now that would be both lean and productive - and not merely minimal. Or replicating the functionality and robustness of Linux Mint (without a "DE" - maybe just FLTK/OpenBox?) on Qubes_OS/Aboriginal Linux, before XML and binary-blobs take over? There's a fine challenge!

Also i need to state that the above-stated Distrowatch comment #83 does not mention or reffer to Bunsenlabs per se. Therefore (in order to grasp a sense of it) please refer to Distrowatch comment #91 which talks about Bunsenlabs extensively and within this context reffers to Comment #83.

Last edited by kimlik66 (2016-01-17 11:03:09)

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#22 2016-01-18 07:27:24

hhh
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

pvsage wrote:

^ Besides, what alternatives are there to LO Writer?  (Don't say "Abiword"; that's been broken for a while now, and there doesn't seem to be any rush to fix it.)

I'd venture to say none. Critizing the decision to include libreoffice-writer/-core/-common is as stupid as any other thread that evangelizes this or that or those packages... suck it up, buttercup, dpkg and apt are your friends.

we carez bout DW comments? puh-leaze.

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#23 2016-01-19 01:33:46

KrunchTime
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

@kimlik66:  It's refer/refers, not reffer/refferswink

I'm sensing that some do not like LibreOffice Writer installed by default.  I agree with this opinion, but there is the network install option.  However, I do understand the need to have it when running BL Live.

How about Write Type?  It's only a little over 6mb and is available in the Debian repos.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2016-01-19 01:50:20)

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#24 2016-01-19 07:32:59

nobody0
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

KrunchTime wrote:

How about Write Type?  It's only a little over 6mb and is available in the Debian repos.

Thanks for the link.

@pvsage
Abiword works well. LO is bit too much for simple writing.

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#25 2016-01-19 07:37:31

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: DW comments & LibreOffice cons

KrunchTime wrote:

However, I do understand the need to have it when running BL Live.

Can you explain it to me then please because I don't understand sad

The main purpose of a live disk (beyond checking hardware compatibility) is system maintenance/repair and anonymous browsing (ie, internet banking).

IMO the live ISO should drop LO-Writer.


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