[DONE] Boron suggestions

rbh · 2023-08-22 20:28:07

hhh wrote:

I don't care one way or another. It's not anything I'm interested in on a stable system, but I have no objection to those who want the extra sysinfo.

From the linux-hardware.org homepage:

This is a project to anonymously collect hardware details of Linux-powered computers over the world and help people to collaboratively debug hardware related issues, check for Linux-compatibility and find drivers

If you don't want to participate in that, and have a pc that works well with Linux, the program is not for you.
But if you were to by a new computer and can't find info about its linux compability, it could be quite handy to boot on the BunsenLab stick and make a probe...

The program is as I see it, very useful on BL iso.

Last edited by rbh (2023-08-22 20:29:46)

johnraff · 2023-08-23 01:16:58

A few comments:

If the probe is run without upload the results appear in the form of a json file which is hard to read for a new user and even if piped through

jq '.'

hard to understand compared with inxi, except maybe for professionals.

The probe results become more accessible after the upload, so they can be viewed with a web browser. Then it's more useful.

Without a working network, I think inxi for example presents the hardware data in a more accessible form.

Participating in the collection of a Linux hardware compatibility data base is a worthwhile cause, agreed.

Debian's Popularity Contest is also perhaps worthwhile. It's offered by the Debian installer on an opt-in basis because it uploads information about the user's activity.

In the past there were questions raised about privacy wrt the data uploaded by hw-probe, eg: https://forum.rosalinux.ru/viewtopic.php?t=6515
But as the last post there says, privacy seems to have been improved in recent versions. Various wikis confirm this, but always in the same language, which suggests to me the entries might have been written by the software developer:

Privacy
Private info is not collected. See the privacy notes.
Warning Please note that a 32-byte prefix of salted SHA512 hashes of MAC addresses and serial numbers are uploaded to the server in order to properly identify unique computers and parts. These are unlikely to be reversible.
Moreover, it's safer to share your logs by hw-probe rather than share manually, because all private strings are removed at the client side before uploading.

The manual suggests to run hw-probe with 'sudo -E' which gives the programme access to the user's environment. It is possible that environment variables might contain sensitive data like passwords.

somewhat off-topic:
Thread on Debian-User about hardware testing, suggesting hw-probe:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/20 … 01021.html
And even further off-topic, about GitHub:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/20 … 01069.html

hhh · 2023-08-23 05:25:47

The man does his research, folks.

rbh · 2023-08-23 11:37:27

johnraff wrote:

If the probe is run without upload the results appear in the form of a json file which is hard to read for a new user and even if piped through
jq '.'
hard to understand compared with inxi, except maybe for professionals.

I dont call me an expert.. So hard is not the json report to understand. First entry on new probe:

"bat:sanyo-45n1773-serial-xxxxx": {
"Bus": "SYS",
"Capacity": "50.3448%",
"CurSize": "11.68 Wh",
"Device": "Battery 45N1773 Li-ion 23.2 Wh",
"Serial": "xxxxxx",
"Size": "23.2 Wh",
"Status": "works",
"Technology": "Li-ion",
"Type": "battery",
"Vendor": "SANYO"

This tells me what I knew, it would be good to by a new battery and I get all the info I need when bying a new one. (serial, omitted by me).

A couple of years ago, was the log only a cleartext log. So, now they has changed. One json log and multiple cleartext logs.

The probe, when finished, informs "Local probe path: /root/HW_PROBE/LATEST/hw.info". The hw.info direcorty contains two files: devices.json host. The file host, shows 36 lines of info of the host, in cleartext. No hard to understand.
The direcory "logs", contains 65 logs in cleartext. They are:
acpi cpupower dmi_id hdparm iostat lspci_all sensors xdpyinfo amixer debs edac-util hwinfo iwconfig lsusb smartctl xinput aplay dev edid i2cdetect iw_list meminfo
systemd-analyze xorg.conf arecord df ethtool_p ifconfig lsblk modprobe.d upower xorg.conf.d biosdecode dkms_status fdisk input_devices lsb_release nmcli uptime xorg.log boot.log dmesg glxinfo interrupts lscpu os-release usb-devices xorg.log.1
cpuid dmesg.1 grub inxi lsmod power_supply vainfo xrandr cpuinfo dmidecode hciconfig ioports lspci rfkill vulkaninfo xrandr_providers
Easy to navigate to the log you are intrerested in. And, you also have the inxi-log...

How can you have missed that? Or is it something wrong with your installation so the "log" dir wasn't written? Try again.

The probe results become more accessible after the upload, so they can be viewed with a web browser. Then it's more useful.

The uploaded information is more accessible for for people trying to help...
[You can also by a service, making regular probes and get an email of hardware changes]

Without a working network, I think inxi for example presents the hardware data in a more accessible form.

Totaly wrong. You get both inxi and much more info easy accessible.

johnraff · 2023-08-24 07:30:52

Request to other forum members: if you'd like to help us here, please install hw-probe (on BL it's in the menu>System Settings>Install Favourite Packages>Utilities menu) and run 'man hw-probe' then either 'sudo hw-probe -all' or 'sudo -E hw-probe -all' and report back on your experience.

Optionally, run Menu>System Settings>Quick System Info
and compare.

Thanks!

DeepDayze · 2023-08-24 16:43:55

hw-probe or hwinfo is good to have in the base install or in the live session, as it may be useful for when reaching out for help whether in live or installed system.

rbh · 2023-08-24 21:26:07

DeepDayze wrote:

hw-probe or hwinfo is good to have in the base install or in the live session,

hw-probe has some dependensies, utilities it uses to collect info. Among them; hwinfo. So, hw-probe is much more than hwinfo...

DeepDayze · 2023-08-24 22:48:44

rbh wrote:

DeepDayze wrote:
hw-probe or hwinfo is good to have in the base install or in the live session,
hw-probe has some dependensies, utilities it uses to collect info. Among them; hwinfo. So, hw-probe is much more than hwinfo...

Ahh hw-probe just formats the output of hwinfo into a nicer layout.

rbh · 2023-08-24 22:53:28

johnraff wrote:

The manual suggests to run hw-probe with 'sudo -E' which gives the programme access to the user's environment. It is possible that environment variables might contain sensitive data like passwords.

The risk of sensitive data leaking, should be the same with or without "-E"...

johnraff · 2023-08-25 00:57:33

The user's environment can contain sensitive data. Not necessarily, but it's a possibility.
For example: https://www.trendmicro.com/en_my/resear … crets.html

'sudo -E' makes the user's environment available to the programme.

So it's not surprising to feel nervous about sending one's environment to hw-probe. However, after spending some more time this morning searching, I was unable to find articles which specifically said there was a security problem with 'sudo -E'.

Still, good article about modifying the environment with sudo calls:
https://www.baeldung.com/linux/control- … nvironment

Baeldung wrote:

Finally, let’s emphasize that environmental variables have a great impact on system security. So, we should think twice when modifying the sudo shell environment.

And, AI is still notoriously unreliable, but:

Bard wrote:

hw-probe is a relatively new tool, and it is still under development. There is a chance that it could have bugs that could damage your system.

Users who read that might be reluctant to run hw-probe. Even if it's incorrect.

johnraff · 2023-08-25 01:56:58

DeepDayze wrote:

hw-probe or hwinfo is good to have in the base install or in the live session, as it may be useful for when reaching out for help whether in live or installed system.

BL currently ships several hardware information utilities by default. Some are clear and simple, others more detailed and complicated:
hardinfo (GUI)
inxi
hwinfo
lshw

(wireless)
rfkill

There's also hwdata, but that seems to serve no purpose now that RedHat have dropped Kudzu. I'd be inclined to drop hwdata from the install list but it's very small and does no harm.

Last edited by johnraff (2023-08-26 01:38:02)

Sector11 · 2023-08-25 02:11:48

Quite a while back I read the hw_prob description and when I saw:

A tool to check operability of computer hardware and upload result to the Linux hardware database.

I said to myself. No thank you.

The others I see ↑↑ are all local.

rbh · 2023-08-25 07:47:31

Sector11 wrote:

I said to myself. No thank you.
The others I see ↑↑ are all local.

Uploading to the hw-database is optional.
The decision to include hw-probe in the BL installation is taken.
My proposal now, was to include two menu entries:

* hw-probe - system report saved local
Command to be issued:
sudo -E hw-probe -all
* hw-probe - system report uploaded
Command to be issued:
sudo -E hw-probe -all -upload

Do you decline them, on behalf of all users: Do you vote no to include those in the jgmenu?

rbh · 2023-08-25 10:04:56

DeepDayze wrote:

Ahh hw-probe just formats the output of hwinfo into a nicer layout.

In addition to hwinfo, hw-probe also uses at least acpica-tools, dmidecode, lm-sensors, pciutils, smartmontools and usbutils.

rbh · 2023-08-25 12:10:51

johnraff wrote:

If the probe is run without upload the results appear in the form of a json file

I get file "devices.json" and several other files. Don't you get file "host" and subdirecory "logs", with several specific logs. Don't you?

which is hard to read for a new user and even if piped through
jq '.'
hard to understand compared with inxi,

Yes, it is true that json-files need to be read with a suitable filtered viewer like mcview or jq. But seriously, do you relay mean that this is so hard to understand:?

"board:lenovo-20ar003rms": {
"Bus": "SYS",
"Device": "Motherboard 20AR003RMS",
"Status": "works",
"Type": "motherboard",
"Vendor": "LENOVO"

Is then the uploaded devices.json on the web, under heading Devices, equaley hard to understand?

Without a working network, I think inxi for example presents the hardware data in a more accessible form.

Can you agree that hw-probe, gives more informtion than inxi? Hw-probe, gives several logs, collected with more tools than inxi. Can you agree that all logs is in clear text except for the devices.json?
Admittedly, hw-probe's inxi-log, has in some aspect less info than BunsenLabs menu command. In other aspects, hw-probe's inxi-log has more info.
Inxi flags in BunsenLabs: -FxzdJlopru
Inxi flags in hw-probe: -Fxxxzmd

Hw-probe, uses -xxx, for most extra data. -xx at least is needed to get chip-ID. It is then more easy to search info/drivers etc, for the specific hardware.
Hw-probe, uses -m. When run with sudo, you get detailed information of your ram. You will se how much ram there is in each bank, total array capacity, max module etc.

Thread on Debian-User about hardware testing, suggesting hw-probe:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/20 … 01021.html

And only one negative. He id not like github. He could be directed to Salsainsted.

(Maybe we should use "inxi -xx" at least?)

Sector11 · 2023-08-25 20:54:32

rbh wrote:

Do you decline them, on behalf of all users: Do you vote no to include those in the jgmenu?

No wait, you misunderstood. I would 'never' tell you or anyone what they can or cannot use.

As you see, quoting myself:

I said to myself. No thank you.
The others I see ↑↑ are all local.

bold italics added

I was talking to "myself" regarding the uploading of the file to the Linux database.

And by "the others" - I am refering to the programs:
hardinfo (GUI)
inxi
hwinfo
lshw

Hope that clears it up

rbh · 2023-08-25 21:12:16

Sector11 wrote:

rbh wrote:
Do you decline them, on behalf of all users: Do you vote no to include those in the jgmenu?
No wait, you misunderstood.

I could not decide what to belive, so I asked.

I would 'never' tell you or anyone what they can or cannot use.

Developing a distro is in some sense just that...

The others I see ↑↑ are all local.

But hw-probe is both. Both local and cloud.

So, what du you think about adding menu entry for running hw-probe and saving local or upload to the database?, just like we have an menuentry for running inxi.

johnraff · 2023-08-26 01:30:34

rbh wrote:

The decision to include hw-probe in the BL installation is taken.

Point of fact:

rbh wrote:

Three years ago, I proposed to add hw-probe to BunsenLabs.
In the Beryllium Release it was not included in default installation, but as "Installable favorite", as "(some may see privacy implications)".

hw-probe is not included in the default BL system. It is available to install from the menu.

No decision has been taken to add it to the Boron default package list.

The only case I can see at the moment for adding hw-probe by default would be if there were possible network connectivity issues that could not be resolved with the currently installed utilities, and which hw-probe would be likely to fix.

Otherwise, users who want hw-probe can install it from the live session or from the installed system.

Last edited by johnraff (2023-08-26 01:37:10)

johnraff · 2023-08-26 01:50:17

johnraff wrote:

I have just had an idea that the "install" script might be able to offer to add a menu item for the installed package directly to the user's prepend.csv.

Thinking about this a bit more, it might in fact be quite easy to do.
Example:
Have a directory containing files with names like 'hw-probe.template', 'audacious.template' etc for any apps which we would like to be able to add menu entries for. The template would hold a menu snippet that could be just pasted into prepend.csv at the bottom of the appropriate submenu (jgmenu ^tag name). So the submenu name would need to be recorded too, maybe as a comment at the top, giving eg:

#bl-utilities
Audacious,audacious,audacious

Then the install pipemenu could be extended to look for a template file of the same name as the app being installed, and if it found one, to ask the user whether they wanted to automatically add a menu entry to "Utilities". If "yes" then pasting the snippet at the bottom of that tag section should be easy.

Sector11 · 2023-08-26 03:59:22

rbh wrote:

Sector11 wrote:
I would 'never' tell you or anyone what they can or cannot use.
Developing a distro is in some sense just that...

Not quite, deciding what programs an ISO installs is different:
Including A doesn't mean user 'must use' A
Not including B doesn't mean a user 'cannot use' B

The others I see ↑↑ are all local.
But hw-probe is both. Both local and cloud.

Well, the description is not 100% clear on it being "both":
------
Description: Tool to check operability of computer hardware
A tool to check operability of computer hardware and upload result to the Linux hardware database.

Probe — is a snapshot of your computer's hardware state and system logs. The tool returns a permanent URL to view the probe of the computer.

The tool is intended to simplify collecting of logs necessary for investigating hardware related problems. Just ask user to run one simple command to collect all the system logs at once:

sudo hw-probe -all -upload

By creating probes you contribute to the HDD/SSD Real-Life Reliability Test study: https://github.com/linuxhw/SMART
Homepage: https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe
------
Mind you someone "new to Linux" person may not realize the "-upload" option can be left off.

So, what du you think about adding menu entry for running hw-probe and saving local or upload to the database?, just like we have an menuentry for running inxi.

Personal opinion:
I see no harm in having it in a menu entry as a "local" option.
Make it a users choice to have the user add a new menu entry to include the upload option.
- no mistake clicking the wrong button.

However I tend to agree with John. Leave it as an installable favourite if we already have other programs that give us that kind of information it's not really necessary.
- and as John is hinting at a script to even add it to the menu system.

Of the others: hardinfo (GUI), inxi, hwinfo and lshw I have them all.

inxi is the one I use most and have a bunch of aliases to get what I want:

Example:

 26 Aug 23 @ 00:54:39 ~
   $ hdd
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 78.26 GiB (8.4%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Western Digital model: WD10EZEX-08WN4A0 
  size: 931.51 GiB speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: WD-WCC6Y4SART1L 
  temp: 35.0 C 
  Optical-1: /dev/sr0 vendor: PIONEER model: DVD-RW DVR-212D 
  rev: 1.24 dev-links: cdrom,cdrw,dvd,dvdrw 
  Features: speed: 40 multisession: yes audio: yes dvd: yes 
  rw: cd-r,cd-rw,dvd-r state: running 
 
 26 Aug 23 @ 00:54:50 ~
   $

Don't really need the others but they are here.

#61 2023-08-22 20:28:07

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#62 2023-08-23 01:16:58

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#63 2023-08-23 05:25:47

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#64 2023-08-23 11:37:27

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#65 2023-08-24 07:30:52

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#66 2023-08-24 16:43:55

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#67 2023-08-24 21:26:07

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#68 2023-08-24 22:48:44

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#69 2023-08-24 22:53:28

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#70 2023-08-25 00:57:33

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#71 2023-08-25 01:56:58

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#72 2023-08-25 02:11:48

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#73 2023-08-25 07:47:31

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#74 2023-08-25 10:04:56

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#75 2023-08-25 12:10:51

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#76 2023-08-25 20:54:32

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#77 2023-08-25 21:12:16

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#78 2023-08-26 01:30:34

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#79 2023-08-26 01:50:17

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

#80 2023-08-26 03:59:22

Re: [DONE] Boron suggestions

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