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#126 2020-02-19 01:22:32

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,180
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

http://dbox.id.lv/Bunshen/Bunshen4.png?i=1

That looks really lovely. Thanks for joining the BL Forums, dendro, I hope you keep posting. Great work.

I'd like to leave your post here where it is, since we don't have a current "visual refresh" development thread at the moment. If anyone can suggest a better thread for it, post your opinion.

@dendro, you should post this screenshot in our Monthly Screenshot Thread...

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=6440

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#127 2020-03-09 09:07:48

jimjamz
Member
Registered: 2016-04-04
Posts: 134

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Hi all,

I'm not sure where the most appropriate place is for raising bugs for Lithium seeing as it's still in pre-release. I didn't want to pollute the bugs section as it seemed unfair. Please advise.

I have Lithium on bare metal hardware, Lenovo Thinkpad x270.

When BL goes into standby/sleep after a period of inactivity, it is not always possible to wake the BL session. The power key light throbs indicating the hardware is in standby.  Pressing SPACE or other keys does not wake the device. Pressing the power button wakes the hardware (solid power light) but the screen does not activate. Pressing any keys subsequently also does not enable the screen.

The same scenario occurs if the device lid is closed then opened. The power light moves from throbbing to solid but the screen does not enable.  The screen is also not backlit, indicating it has not been enabled.
The device only reacts to a semi-long press (1 second) of the power button which sends the shutdown signal. This is the only occurrence when the screen enables to display the power off sequence.

Before having BL Lithium as the host OS on the device, I had Debian 10 which suffered none of these issues. The device would wake immediately on key press, power button press or lid open.

Is this an ACPI issue in Lithium?

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#128 2020-03-09 13:34:57

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 926

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

jimjamz wrote:

Is this an ACPI issue in Lithium?

Suspend works ok on my Lenovo L440 (J4ET79WW), Latitude D630, Assus E5888_M4A88TD-V EVO.


// Regards rbh

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#129 2020-03-09 15:10:57

kozimodo
Member
Registered: 2015-10-04
Posts: 68

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

I fixed my (somewhat different) problem by installing the backported kernel. If you have Debian backports enabled:

sudo apt install linux-image-5.4.0-0.bpo.3-amd64

Last edited by kozimodo (2020-03-09 15:12:05)

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#130 2020-03-13 23:29:11

jimjamz
Member
Registered: 2016-04-04
Posts: 134

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

It's something to do with the login screen (lightdm?). Upon opening the lid, or pressing the power button to wake after inactivity, the screen doesn't enable. However, if I enter my login password blindly, the screen is activated once logged in. Hopefully, this will narrow the cause of the issue.

As mentioned before, Debian 10 did not have this issue with immediate wake on lid open power button press or any key press.

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#131 2020-03-13 23:30:04

jimjamz
Member
Registered: 2016-04-04
Posts: 134

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Is there something I can check that may show the behaviour? dmesg? /var/log?

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#132 2020-04-10 14:44:13

shaocaholica
New Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 3

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Will there be a 32bit/i686 build like Helium?  I admit its not that important but I like to keep some 32bit only hardware chugging along.  I'm sure others do as well.

Last edited by shaocaholica (2020-04-10 14:45:22)

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#133 2020-04-10 17:49:31

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 926

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

shaocaholica wrote:

Will there be a 32bit/i686 build like Helium?  I admit its not that important but I like to keep some 32bit only hardware chugging along.

Yes! It is said that BL wont drop 32-bit support.

I also have some 32 bit pc still in use. I have had no problems upgrading existing Helium installation. A little more work with new installation. Did one two weeks ago, wiped MX Linux and installed Helium --> Lithium on an IBM TP X30. Good for reading documentation, testing net and so on.

Last edited by rbh (2020-04-10 17:50:04)


// Regards rbh

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#134 2020-04-10 23:18:07

shaocaholica
New Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 3

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Will Lithium use Wayland or X?  What about Helium currently?

Last edited by shaocaholica (2020-04-10 23:18:22)

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#135 2020-04-11 01:47:39

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

shaocaholica wrote:

Will Lithium use Wayland or X?  What about Helium currently?

Currently it's Xorg based but down the road Wayland may be considered.


Real Men Use Linux

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#136 2020-04-11 02:04:12

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,180
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Definitely staying with Xorg until Wayland develops more, number One, and letter B, until Debian stable catches up with whatever the first really stable Wayland release is.

So... X for a while yet.

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#137 2020-04-11 06:17:11

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

shaocaholica wrote:

Will there be a 32bit/i686 build like Helium?  I admit its not that important but I like to keep some 32bit only hardware chugging along.  I'm sure others do as well.

To repeat rbh, Yes!

But this time we're not planning a fullsized i386 iso, only a ~700MB CD version.
It will still be possible to upgrade a 32bit system installed off the CD iso to a full BunsenLabs setup though.
Neither will it be necessary to burn a CD - if the computer will boot from a USB stick, that will be fine too.

But, as the underlying Debian system gets more demanding of hardware resources with every upgrade, I don't know if people running 32bit machines (I still have two such laptops) would want to install everything available, but rather pick and choose software, or even consider removing some of the standard BunsenLabs software stack to keep their machines usable. That's a side-project I want to play with a bit for the above two machines, once Lithium is released. I'd appreciate any ideas other users have there...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#138 2020-04-11 16:44:20

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:
shaocaholica wrote:

Will there be a 32bit/i686 build like Helium?  I admit its not that important but I like to keep some 32bit only hardware chugging along.  I'm sure others do as well.

To repeat rbh, Yes!

But this time we're not planning a fullsized i386 iso, only a ~700MB CD version.
It will still be possible to upgrade a 32bit system installed off the CD iso to a full BunsenLabs setup though.
Neither will it be necessary to burn a CD - if the computer will boot from a USB stick, that will be fine too.

But, as the underlying Debian system gets more demanding of hardware resources with every upgrade, I don't know if people running 32bit machines (I still have two such laptops) would want to install everything available, but rather pick and choose software, or even consider removing some of the standard BunsenLabs software stack to keep their machines usable. That's a side-project I want to play with a bit for the above two machines, once Lithium is released. I'd appreciate any ideas other users have there...

One idea for that is having BL-Welcome detect it's running on a 32 bit OS and tailoring the questions to suggest adding/removing any 32 bit stuff to customize the install for that machine.

Thoughts? Maybe this Q could well be moved to its own thread smile


Real Men Use Linux

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#139 2020-04-11 22:14:20

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 926

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

I think it's a good idea to have one iso for the 32bit installation. It also is good to have the size of iso under 800 MB, so it can be read by old CD-Roms.
That is what has been expressed before.

About what software: light alternatives: Abiword and Gnumeric, instead of LibreOffice.
Maybe a package to switch betwen keyboard with super-key and without, and menu alternative. Many old i386 laptops, do not have the super key.


// Regards rbh

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#140 2020-04-12 00:51:32

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

DeepDayze wrote:

One idea for that is having BL-Welcome detect it's running on a 32 bit OS and tailoring the questions to suggest adding/removing any 32 bit stuff to customize the install for that machine.

bl-welcome is already detecting that the system was installed from a CD, and, if so, suggesting installing bunsen-meta-all to get the full BL software set. When other possibilities specific for old 32bit computers have been put together and tested, then maybe those options could be added, but this won't be in time for the Lithium release.

rbh wrote:

About what software: light alternatives: Abiword and Gnumeric, instead of LibreOffice.

Agreed - I think we've already left LibreOffice off the CD iso. I'm not an Abiword fan, though, unless it's improved recently.

Many old i386 laptops, do not have the super key.

I didn't know this - thanks for the warning!


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#141 2020-04-12 01:16:09

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

One idea for that is having BL-Welcome detect it's running on a 32 bit OS and tailoring the questions to suggest adding/removing any 32 bit stuff to customize the install for that machine.

bl-welcome is already detecting that the system was installed from a CD, and, if so, suggesting installing bunsen-meta-all to get the full BL software set. When other possibilities specific for old 32bit computers have been put together and tested, then maybe those options could be added, but this won't be in time for the Lithium release.

That makes sense and a good plan for the next release after Lithium, or at least maybe in a point release.

johnraff wrote:
rbh wrote:

About what software: light alternatives: Abiword and Gnumeric, instead of LibreOffice.

Agreed - I think we've already left LibreOffice off the CD iso. I'm not an Abiword fan, though, unless it's improved recently.

Many old i386 laptops, do not have the super key.

I didn't know this - thanks for the warning!

Abiword is at 3.0.2 in Buster, but haven't really played with it.


Real Men Use Linux

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#142 2020-04-12 08:42:55

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 926

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:

I'm not an Abiword fan, though, unless it's improved recently.

I do not know what other alternative there is. If we are talking of wordprocessor, with WYSIWYG-approach. good language support, available in Debian repo.

But if we are talking about textprocessing, there is other alternatives like lyx. But then there is the learning-curve...

Abiword is easyer to manage for those who used M$ Word, Libre Office Writer and so on.
Abiword is nowadays stable, For some years ago, it often crached. Not now.


// Regards rbh

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#143 2020-04-12 09:16:09

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

^ I tried abiword for a while, long ago, and along with some general bugginess found it impossible to use in Japanese although it claimed to support it. It may have improved.

If all a user needs is to be able to open and read Microsoft Word documents then I think there are some lightweight utilities for this.

For a real word processor I'd personally recommend LibreOffice Writer with just the minimal dependencies, and put up with the heavy system load, but without investing some time into testing abiword it's not possible to dissmiss it I guess.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#144 2020-04-12 22:41:39

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:

^ I tried abiword for a while, long ago, and along with some general bugginess found it impossible to use in Japanese although it claimed to support it. It may have improved.

If all a user needs is to be able to open and read Microsoft Word documents then I think there are some lightweight utilities for this.

For a real word processor I'd personally recommend LibreOffice Writer with just the minimal dependencies, and put up with the heavy system load, but without investing some time into testing abiword it's not possible to dissmiss it I guess.

That might be a good option on 32 bit if there's enough room on the CD for  Libreoffice Writer and gnumeric for a basic spreadsheet app. The full LO suite can be offered as an install thru BL-Welcome after installation.


Real Men Use Linux

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#145 2020-04-13 00:15:54

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

^Well, until it comes to a trial build we won't know, but my guess is that to get the next CD iso small enough to actually fit on a CD (~700MB), we'll have to leave a lot of software out, likely including LibreOffice in any form. It will be up to the user to install it later. Gnumeric might fit OK though.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#146 2020-04-13 01:01:50

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:

^Well, until it comes to a trial build we won't know, but my guess is that to get the next CD iso small enough to actually fit on a CD (~700MB), we'll have to leave a lot of software out, likely including LibreOffice in any form. It will be up to the user to install it later. Gnumeric might fit OK though.

Yes you are right...700MB does not sound like a lot of room unless stronger compression is utilized for the squashfs on the ISO.


Real Men Use Linux

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#147 2020-04-13 02:14:37

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

^The CD build already uses stronger compression than the regular one. I don't know if there's much slack left there.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#148 2020-04-13 02:54:08

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,123

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

johnraff wrote:

^The CD build already uses stronger compression than the regular one. I don't know if there's much slack left there.

Oh that's good to know


Real Men Use Linux

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#149 2020-04-24 06:21:02

shaocaholica
New Member
Registered: 2020-04-10
Posts: 3

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

Are there really that many old 32bit systems that can't boot from USB but will otherwise run Lithium fine?  I have a collection of old systems and anything that is fast enough for modern web browsing can easily boot from USB.

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#150 2020-04-26 10:51:54

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 7,706
Website

Re: Testing Lithium iso discussion

^Machines that can't boot from a USB stck, but would otherwise be OK with Lithium? Rather, few I'd agree, though a slimmed-down Lithium might be just about usable on such a machine. Agreed, again, the main problem is the modern internet. (Try dillo instead of firefox for a javascript-free internet experience. It's certainly fast at least.)

But from Lithium we don't plan to provide a separate 32bit fullsized iso, so the 32bit non-pae CD iso will be the compromise solution. 32 bit users can start there and build up or strip down.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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