ISO building notes

johnraff · 2017-02-19 09:38:45

^Hoping that it's now OK.

I'll dig out a laptop with a preexisting install and try to re-use the same partition, see how it goes.

damo · 2017-02-19 12:45:44

johnraff wrote:

^Hoping that it's now OK.
I'll dig out a laptop with a preexisting install and try to re-use the same partition, see how it goes.

I think it is very hardware-dependant. It happens on my desktop (2013) and old laptop (2010), but not on the new laptop (2016).

johnraff · 2017-03-01 03:23:08

@hhh, what thoughts do you have on the package list for our CD iso? I'm also going to look around at some other tweaks to get the size down a little bit - currently it reads at 700MB which is just on the edge for a CD. It might be nice if we could shave it down 10 or 20 MB. The current iceweasel/firefox and volti/volumeicon changes haven't gone in yet, but here's the list as it was for last year's build:

adwaita-icon-theme
alsa-utils
arandr
audacious
clipit
compton
conky-all
cpufrequtils
crda
dmz-cursor-theme
dosfstools
eject
enchant
file-roller
firmware-linux-nonfree
firmware-linux
flashplugin-nonfree
fonts-liberation
fuse
gdebi
gksu
gmrun
gnome-keyring
gnome-themes-standard
gparted
gtk2-engines-pixbuf
gtk2-engines-murrine
gvfs
gvfs-backends
htop
hunspell
hwdata
i965-va-driver
iceweasel
lame
leafpad
libpam-gnome-keyring
lightdm
live-tools
locales
lsb-release
lxappearance
lxterminal
mirage
mlocate
mpv
network-manager-gnome
nitrogen
ntfs-3g
obconf
obmenu
openbox
p7zip-full
pavucontrol
pciutils
policykit-1-gnome
pulseaudio
python-xdg
rsync
scrot
suckless-tools
sudo
synaptic
thunar
thunar-archive-plugin
tint2
ttf-mscorefonts-installer
tumbler
unar
unrar
unzip
update-inetd
user-setup
uuid-runtime
va-driver-all
vdpau-va-driver
volti
xdg-user-dirs
xdg-utils
xfce4-notifyd
xfce4-power-manager
xfce4-screenshooter
xfce4-volumed
xorg
xterm
xz-utils

Adwaita icon theme could come off for a start, but it'll probably be pulled in as a dep anyway.

Last edited by johnraff (2017-03-01 03:24:29)

hhh · 2017-03-01 04:01:45

Before we talk shaving KBs, iceweasel is FF now, of course, and how live-tools slipped by me... Also, the 586 kernel is gone in stretch, that's almost 117,000 KB right there.

But if it were only up to me, I'd keep going by losing things that don't cripple the OS if they're gone and that the user can install later if he chooses. Synaptic is nearly 8,000 KB, gone. Pulseaudio and pavucontrol, gone, alsa will suffice and that's another 6,000 KB almost. I already go without clipit and volti, so bye-bye. Xfce4-screenshooter I use all the time, but pfffthh, scrot it is. Flush flash. dpkg sffices for gdebi. obmenu? Microsoft fonts? Lightdm? Systemd?

Sorry, getting carried away! Anyway, food for thought.

Calling it a night, take care my friend!

Last edited by hhh (2017-03-01 04:03:10)

johnraff · 2017-03-01 04:41:02

I'll try an experimental CD build, pulling out some of the packages you mentioned.

Also, how about omitting the apt indices? https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/l … n.html#477 That saves many megabytes at the cost of requiring the live user to do an apt-get update before doing any apt operations.

Some other ideas here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/20 … 00025.html

Meanwhile, I've updated the stretch-build branch of our live-build configs for the 170227 beep-free iso here: https://kernel.bunsenlabs.org/BunsenLab … ogen-trunk so you can have a look at what I've changed. If anything looks wrong please raise it here!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-03-01 07:40:17

hhh wrote:

Pulseaudio and pavucontrol, gone, alsa will suffice

If PulseAudio is removed, sound will not work in Deuterium unless /etc/asound.conf is deleted.

Also, machines with multiple sound cards may not work without further configuration of ALSA.

Xfce4-screenshooter I use all the time, but pfffthh, scrot it is.

What about the menu entries?

Would they not have to be deleted also?

dpkg sffices for gdebi

I like gdebi because it will refuse to install non-compatible packages and hunts down any dependencies itself, unlike dpkg(8).

+1 for all the other suggestions though

EDIT: we'll have to wait until Helium before removing systemd though — my test system is now booting with https://packages.debian.org/stretch/runit-init and seems to work pretty well:

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 233#p46233

EDIT2: sorry, forgot the 8o

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-03-01 07:46:54)

nobody · 2017-03-01 07:54:23

There is really no good reason to switch the default init system except for personal preference: its operation is transparent anyway to the causual user, there are no technical reasons. Just another maintenance burden; just leave that problem to the Debian maintainers.

johnraff · 2017-03-01 08:55:39

I've put the patched udeb live-installer source in the BL git repo: https://kernel.bunsenlabs.org/johnraff/live-installer
The others will follow, though the changes are trivial in some most cases.

Last edited by johnraff (2017-03-05 07:08:22)

hhh · 2017-03-01 11:46:43

I said I was getting carried away.

I was certainly joking about systemd, the kernel alone should save us enough space. Synaptic I could argue is expendable.

johnraff · 2017-03-15 06:58:21

By leaving out the apt indexes (requires user to do an 'apt-get update' to get them back) a lot of space is freed up and I tried to put back a few of the packages Has had taken out. The libstreamer plugins are huge though, so they had to stay out, likewise most of the fonts. I put synaptic back in, swapped lxterminal for xfce4-terminal simply because it looked nicer, and put back a few other things. (Full list below.) The latest build came to 672MB so there's still a bit of spare space left.

I was thinking, for a CD, two things that might be good to have:

1) Any useful network tools. Saying "apt-get it" is catch 22 if you can't get online. This isn't my field at all: any suggestions for handy CLI tools that could make it easier for people to get connected?

2) Some hardware benchmarking tools. Like, you're looking at a second-hand laptop deciding whether to buy it and you don't want to spend too long installing mysterious software off the internet with a shop attendant suspiciously watching. Something good for a quick check of the important stuff?

These are the default BL packages currently missing from the CD iso:

anacron
aptitude
apt-xapian-index
arj
at-spi2-core
bash-completion
btrfs-tools
catfish
fbxkb
feh
filezilla
fonts-cantarell
fonts-dejavu
fonts-droid
fonts-inconsolata
ftp
galculator
geany
ghostscript
gigolo
gnumeric
gsimplecal
gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad
gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
gstreamer1.0-libav
gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad
gstreamer1.0-plugins-base
gstreamer1.0-plugins-good
gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio
gvfs-fuse
hddtemp
hdparm
hexchat
libreoffice-writer
lm-sensors
lzop
modemmanager
python-keybinder
python-notify
rpl
rzip
smartmontools
terminator
thunar-media-tags-plugin
transmission-gtk
unace
unalz
usb-modeswitch
usbutils
vlc
vlc-plugin-notify
xfburn
xinput
xsel

Any candidates for putting back (nothing too big)?
(Note: evince and synaptic have already gone back in.)
These substitutions were made:

geany > leafpad
vlc > mpv
terminator > xfce4-terminal

Any comments?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-03-15 08:03:00

johnraff wrote:

useful network tools. Saying "apt-get it" is catch 22 if you can't get online.

Actually, any Debian system contains all the tools needed in the form of the ifupdown scripts, to bring up the network from the CLI the user just has to edit /etc/network/interfaces and run `ifup $INTERFACE`

I use `ip` & `wpa_supplicant` to handle all of my connections (without a GUI), I think that these are both already included.

hardware benchmarking tools

I would always use plain old `lspci` to interrogate the hardware configuration.

I know that some like inxi but I find the output of that program to be confusing, vague and arbitrary, in complete contrast to the aforementioned `lspci` output O:)

I have issues with these missing packages:

btrfs-tools
gvfs-fuse
modemmanager
smartmontools
usb-modeswitch
usbutils

They are all useful for the "rescue" environment, can they all fit back in?

The btrfs support is particularly important, I think.

These substitutions were made:
geany > leafpad
vlc > mpv
terminator > xfce4-terminal
Any comments?

Looks good, shall we apply this to the main release?

]:D

EDIT: ^ joke

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-03-15 08:03:29)

hhh · 2017-03-15 08:30:10

@HoaS, +1 if you think a the CD will ever be used for system recovery (or else remove that phrase from the Live message pop-up). I guess if anyone installs from CD they might need to recover via CD.

We don't include a task manager/ monitor other than htop and I can't recall a single complaint. Unless someone has a specific package in mind, I don't see a need for benchmark tools OOTB.

hhh · 2017-03-15 08:38:05

@John, that list can't be the default BL packages missing. You must mean the current CD packages? The CD should have no graphics apps except for am image viewer, for instance.

I'm on my phone, can't really compare things quickly.

johnraff · 2017-03-15 08:50:09

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

btrfs-tools
gvfs-fuse
modemmanager
smartmontools
usb-modeswitch
usbutils
They are all useful for the "rescue" environment, can they all fit back in?

On my amd64 system, installed size:

btrfs-tools : 3099kB
gvfs-fuse : 322kB
modemmanager : 4694kB
smartmontools : 1616kB
usb-modeswitch : 203kB
usbutils : 655kB

Total: 10,589
Considering squashfs should halve that (no?) they should fit OK, I'd say.

johnraff · 2017-03-15 09:09:28

hhh wrote:

...if you think a the CD will ever be used for system recovery...

I thought it might sometimes, although of course there are dedicated CD isos for that. But more than system recovery, I was thinking of hardware checking. For someone to do a quick and easy assessment of whether they might want to buy some old laptop or not. (In fact, I just remembered hardinfo. At only 467kB, that's quite easy to use - worth considering?)

We don't include a task manager/ monitor other than htop and I can't recall a single complaint.

htop is great! What else comes close?

hhh wrote:

@John, that list can't be the default BL packages missing. You must mean the current CD packages? The CD should have no graphics apps except for am image viewer, for instance.

No that's the diff (from comm) between the CD package list I'm proposing and the one that was used for the recent full-version builds. (The latter differs from yours only in the recent iceweasel>firefox move and the like.) What graphics apps are you referring to? All we install OOTB is mirage anyway, unless I'm overlooking something obvious.

That "removed" list might look small, but some of those packages, along with their dependencies, are pretty chubby.

hhh · 2017-03-15 11:54:25

I was thinking of hardinfo but couldn't remember the name. Add it to the standard images at least?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-03-15 22:17:10

johnraff wrote:

hardinfo

+1, I forgot about that.

htop is great! What else comes close?

https://packages.debian.org/jessie/glances

Bit heavy though

johnraff · 2017-03-16 01:22:35

Thanks for the intro to glances - just installed it and it does output a wealth of info.

htop specializes in processes only, and for that, from a quick, er... glance at glances, it seems to have the edge:
*) easy to search through processes with F3
*) easy to send your choice of signal to a selected process with F9

Presumably glances does that stuff too (haven't looked at the manual yet), but for what it does htop is hard to beat IMO. (especially at 200k!)

Last edited by johnraff (2017-03-16 01:24:47)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2017-03-16 07:31:04

Yes, I would agree with that — htop is specifically a process manager whereas glances is a system monitor type thingie.

johnraff · 2017-03-17 03:40:09

OK I'll add back into the CD package list all those that HOAS mentioned + hardinfo and do a build to see how the size goes up. My feeling is that it will still be safely under 700MB.

Have to go now (band gig today) but will try tomorrow.

#41 2017-02-19 09:38:45

Re: ISO building notes

#42 2017-02-19 12:45:44

Re: ISO building notes

#43 2017-03-01 03:23:08

Re: ISO building notes

#44 2017-03-01 04:01:45

Re: ISO building notes

#45 2017-03-01 04:41:02

Re: ISO building notes

#46 2017-03-01 07:40:17

Re: ISO building notes

#47 2017-03-01 07:54:23

Re: ISO building notes

#48 2017-03-01 08:55:39

Re: ISO building notes

#49 2017-03-01 11:46:43

Re: ISO building notes

#50 2017-03-15 06:58:21

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#51 2017-03-15 08:03:00

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#52 2017-03-15 08:30:10

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#53 2017-03-15 08:38:05

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#54 2017-03-15 08:50:09

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#55 2017-03-15 09:09:28

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#56 2017-03-15 11:54:25

Re: ISO building notes

#57 2017-03-15 22:17:10

Re: ISO building notes

#58 2017-03-16 01:22:35

Re: ISO building notes

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Re: ISO building notes

#60 2017-03-17 03:40:09

Re: ISO building notes

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