Do I really "need" Google

glittersloth · 2016-12-10 19:10:21

^ I mean something like this, just with the Faraday Cage concept applied to it, if possible. Safest way to travel.

Last edited by glittersloth (2016-12-10 19:13:42)

g33zr · 2016-12-10 19:18:51

It makes me breathless just to look at it. 8o

Sector11 · 2016-12-10 19:54:25

@ g33zr and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that that is not what either one of us was thinking, I know I wasn't!

Pain in my sides again thanks to glittersloth! Gotta love a sense of humour!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-12-11 16:05:58

ohnonot wrote:

There's an inconsistency there.
Like: "I have the finest burglar preventions on my windows and even walls, water- and drainpipes, but keep my front door unlocked at all times."

I have seen the error of my ways and now only upload (gnupg, 4096-bit) encrypted files to Google Drive, they show as blobs:

O:)

BLizgreat! · 2016-12-12 23:02:16

Awesome G-slob, I want one!

tknomanzr · 2016-12-15 02:46:08

So I Am posting from an Amazon 8" tablet that I have modified to also include the Google play store for double the paranoia fun. Fact is, I just like Amazon. The ability to get anything my heart desires in 2 days is pretty seductive for me as I hate crowds of people and thus, mostly hate shopping.

Given that I remember when search engines were dumber than a bag of hammers I can live with Google data mining me. The one thing that concerns me about all this highly targeted technology though, is the echo chamber effect as evidenced of late with news and Facebook. I think it is an undesirable side effect of all this intense data analysis that goes on with the big name companies. I am of the opinion, however, that as long as the technology works for me and not against me, then I will continue to use it, at least until we fall off into complete totalitarianism. At least Google changed the search engine game forever. I remember a Time Before Google when a search for Christianity, the top three hits would be porn sites.

Last edited by tknomanzr (2016-12-15 02:47:21)

Sector11 · 2016-12-15 03:06:41

But that was back in the early 90's when a search for anything produced 3 porn sites in the top 5 of any list. Yea, I remember those days ... scheeech it was difficult explaining that that's NOT what I was looking for!

g33zr · 2016-12-15 18:57:03

@ Sector11: It would only be suspicious if the Mrs. noticed a certain whips and lace site kept appearing among your searches. ]:D O:)

Last edited by g33zr (2016-12-15 18:57:55)

Sector11 · 2016-12-15 19:24:01

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh but I have access to the stuff she's searching for too. YUK!

BLizgreat! · 2016-12-19 23:57:18

Thought of one more point associated with the security thru obscurity bunk felt compelled to babble about.

Gnu/Nix may be less prolific in personal computing but when you factor in its presence in web and commercial/enterprise level deployments its not obscure at all and represents a high priority target for people with malicious tech intent.

With much the same running on desktop systems regardless. So is really in no way an obscure platform.

Ha! This is also not off topic as mentioned da mighty GOOG! probably being one of the organizations with the widest deployment of Nix in a production environment.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-12-20 00:00:14)

martix · 2016-12-27 09:59:51

ohnonot wrote:

martix wrote:
that's correct about CyanogenMod, if someone uses it with google-services. What I meant was CM without GApps.
no no, it goes much deeper than that. and not only the software but also politics on their boards.
bluntly put, google is using cyanogenmod to get at the "hacky" users.
like i said i'm not making this up, i have seen the posts (from cyanogenmod devs) and discussions (from disappointed fans) and whatnot.

Actually I did not find anything wrong with CM flashed without the google-stuff (GApps). I mean what is/was CyanogenMod? Basically a tweaked Android. What is Android? In a way it's a Linux OS customized for smartphones. Taking the free and open source codebase and developing CM along with several custom ROMs produced some really great ROMs.

CyanogenOS was something different, but it won't matter much anyway. Neither CyanogenMod. They cut the ties to CyanogenInc. and the project name will be LineageOS. Here it is explained in a nutshell what has happened. Anyhow I'm looking forward to trying out googlefree custom ROMs from the project (or based on it).

ohnonot · 2016-12-31 09:03:10

^ it starts with the android operating system source code. all those projects (cyanogenmod, custom roms, bla) start from that.
it does not contain Gapps afaik.
yet, and i'm paraphrasing in broad strokes here, it is somehow owned (in what sense?) and governed by google (*).
i am sure this reflects in various places inside the code itself, and i've seen it addressed by developers who were trying to clean that up - basically trying to make something "clean" out of it (*).
it's very similar to chromium => chrome. chrome is clearly a google product, based on the foss chromium source code, but chromium is owned by google, too (*). developers have sifted through its source code, filtering out the "googly bits", resulting in new projects (*).

to me the whole concept (trying to make something clean out of something tainted) is flawed and I try to avoid it as best i can - one reason i'm using palemoon and not one of the many YACC (yet another chromium clone) projects.
the same goes for my mobile phone, but unfortunately i don't have the choices.
it's running stock android, which i took some time to strip, firewall and secure.

(*) i'm sorry, i know i should provide some proof/links here, but i just can't be bothered. my mind about android/google is made up and won't change.
the proof is out there, some of those project i mention are well-known, reading their READMEs will often provide answers already.

Last edited by ohnonot (2016-12-31 09:06:32)

Sector11 · 2016-12-31 17:49:34

I think you're wrong, ohnonot. There is no "should" here. You voiced an opinion and said so very well. I for one tend to agree with you.

I would be interested in more of this though:

the same goes for my mobile phone, but unfortunately i don't have the choices.
it's running stock android, which i took some time to strip, firewall and secure.

The best I can do is "Force Stop" and "Disable" - mind you, this is a tablet, no phone contacts, ext. to worry about.

Example: The manufacturer decided to install "KIDOZ" on this thing. The I'd LOVE to delete it - I could use the space. I lost my KID status a long time ago.

BLizgreat! · 2017-01-01 04:56:03

How they own x, is a matter of digging into the murky depths of licensing law (not esp an easy subject to grok.) Particularly when someone considers jurisdiction. Might be said its a small world but its not.

What agreements contributors agree to be bound by etc etc etc. Just saying yes its kosure for people to both use open source for commercial purpose and depending incorporate and use it with proprietary stuff too. Or integrate stuff that's proprietary into X-thing ie: flashflayer etc.

Dont see anything wrong w people making efforts to strip out proprietary stuff etc. Depends on the skills and motivations behind the proj(s).

Don't know how many but on Android doubt there's a shortage of browsers on offer. Strictly 100% open source, if that's someone's preference perhaps. Even FF has trademarked stuff integrated.

The whole (stupid imo) basis for why the world has a Firefox vs Iceweasel thing. Think goog's brilliant for open sourcing some stuff. If people are interested they'll contribute and goog gets plenty of free wo/man hours and other assoc benefits of the closed vs open source dev'ing model.

Plenty of effort gets devoted to these major projs, thus folks take what they can and fork 2 whatever extent. Makes perfect sense.

Or can always go with the old that's the way it is thing. Read somewhere recently that 75% of the Nix kernel devs are paid. No doubt many by Redhat.

Does this probably mean Redhat likely has some high leverage and influence on choices-etc. Probably so and end of dy, reasonable enough. See the golden rule = They who have the gold, make the rules.

People saying I <heart> Linux doesn't pay the light bill, the rent or sign full time devs paychecks so they can pay theirs. So if someone like RH does... yanno?

Just long/pointless babbling obs about things or entities which may influence this type of thing. End of dy, I'm an enduser and just grateful to have access to all the benefits involved/provided. To the extent I/we do and allowed by law.

One more random babbling about goog/Android yeah pretty much da mighty Goog gets to decide what's in and what gets excluded from official releases and for no shortage of oems that's their go 2 source. Then they get to fiddle with it to whatever extent pleases them and put it out on their devices.
Think it's grand there are open source Android projs ongoing. Though clearly those open source purists are going to have to live with any-all limitations that preference entails.
Lol.. and Sector, Jmo, explore rooting that puppy and you can get rid of the annoying kid thing. Sure I babbled somewhere on site, that having an un-rooted android device to me would be like having a Nix install w/o su-etc. Would drive me bonkers.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-01-01 05:16:13)

BLizgreat! · 2017-01-01 07:19:40

Nope, why not pointlessly babble-beat this dead horse some more?

To me, rooting/modding is a good compromise. Esp if someone takes the time to do their homework beforehand and thus ensures they're buying a mod-friendly device to start with.

Full feature/driver support but unfettered control over their stuff to great extent.

Provided someone takes the time/effort to build up knowledge-skills. Really hard to hard brick a device to the point it couldn't be easily recovered by someone who knows what they're doing.

Guessing same thing which long plagued and to extent hamstrung Gnu-Nix on desktop-etc will do likewise w Android on mobile.

Oems are not going to just open source their bread and butter. Think it's understandable in tons of ways too, shrugs. While there'll no doubt be those Oems which are more cooperative to whatever extent w open sourcer's and modder's. Cause they want that $hare of the market/consumers.

But think it's clear Android Foss is going to run into the same roadblks, hurdles and closed(source) doors other consumer form factors have to deal with. Not that I doubt in the end, some awesome developments emerge from those efforts.

Who can deny what they've done with Gnu-Nix on desktop-etc isn't amazingly awesome?

And its easy for Richard Stallman (and similar) to take the high-road, he wants an open source driver to make his printer work. Guy can probably plop down and write one in a little while.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2017-01-01 07:27:22)

ohnonot · 2017-01-02 05:42:34

Sector11 wrote:

I would be interested in more of this though:
the same goes for my mobile phone, but unfortunately i don't have the choices.
it's running stock android, which i took some time to strip, firewall and secure.

once you start browsing http://f-droid.org/ repos you will find lots of apps useful for rooted devices, such as this one.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-07-02 09:49:24)

martix · 2017-01-02 10:18:08

^For further info I would like to mention these great sites as well:
https://droid-break.info/
https://degooglisons-internet.org/alternatives

(Obviously the first one is not about breaking android and bricking the phone/tablet... )

Sector11 · 2017-01-02 11:05:03

Thank you ohnonot and matrix. F-droid I've heard about as well when I stared thinking "change the ROM" ie cyanogenmod but: device not supported. And only since reading this I found: this, I have a Leon and that "should" in there gives doubt. But I'll start reading searching again. Thanks guys.

martix · 2017-01-02 17:17:37

@Sector11 Well, as always, before these kind of endeavours a backup is good to have (not that it is new info to anyone ) With "reading and searching" you're on the right track anyway, so I only would like to mention youtube: I often found useful info in the comments under videos like "how to root this and that phone" or "how to flash this and that rom". The forum on xda-developers.com is also a good source of relevant info. As a Linux user it's not that difficult to tweak android, but it's better to be careful (better safe than sorry). Good Luck!

Sector11 · 2017-01-02 18:14:25

backup - yea a quick search and I found out about "android-tools-adb" I'm going real slow here, it's a shared phone between my wife and I and my neck is on the line if I brick it.

"I didn't do it!" won't cut it, with or without a look of O:)

However we each have a tablet and the three devices run Lollipop. So that's a plus ... I brick my little tablet she yells "Fool, you stupid fool" I brick 'her' phone and it's; "To the guillotine with you!"

Go slow and live!

#141 2016-12-10 19:10:21

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#142 2016-12-10 19:18:51

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#143 2016-12-10 19:54:25

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#144 2016-12-11 16:05:58

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#145 2016-12-12 23:02:16

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#146 2016-12-15 02:46:08

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#147 2016-12-15 03:06:41

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#148 2016-12-15 18:57:03

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#149 2016-12-15 19:24:01

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#150 2016-12-19 23:57:18

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#151 2016-12-27 09:59:51

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#152 2016-12-31 09:03:10

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#153 2016-12-31 17:49:34

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#154 2017-01-01 04:56:03

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#155 2017-01-01 07:19:40

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#156 2017-01-02 05:42:34

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#157 2017-01-02 10:18:08

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#158 2017-01-02 11:05:03

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#159 2017-01-02 17:17:37

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#160 2017-01-02 18:14:25

Re: Do I really "need" Google

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