Do I really "need" Google

ohnonot · 2016-11-25 21:09:32

martix wrote:

that's correct about CyanogenMod, if someone uses it with google-services. What I meant was CM without GApps.

no no, it goes much deeper than that. and not only the software but also politics on their boards.
bluntly put, google is using cyanogenmod to get at the "hacky" users.

like i said i'm not making this up, i have seen the posts (from cyanogenmod devs) and discussions (from disappointed fans) and whatnot.

Stick1bit · 2016-11-26 11:25:25

"Do I really "need" Google"
Maybe not. But Google needs you.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-26 13:07:36

^Lol ... not any more. Think it's like 45%/55% ratio in Goog's favor as to do people need Google or does Google Inc need the people. Buncha folks couldn't function without all the tech gimmes/services Google provides them. GOOGLE ADDICTS !!! and thanks Sector.

Sector11 · 2016-11-26 15:55:21

How does that song go ... oh yea: "It's the end of the world as we know it ..."

It's not: "To Google or not to Google" because "We are the Google. Lower your firewalls and surrender your chips. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." Obviously others know them as The Borg!

]:D

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-26 16:00:06

^LMAO Sector.

Ask yourself, honestly who needs who more. Does the Goog need you or do you really need the Goog ?

Vll!

Sector11 · 2016-11-26 19:17:37

That's so true, 'who needs who more', my wife says I need her more, I disagree.
Of course that's a loosing argument no one, wins an argument with their wife!

And if we weren't here Google would be in a void.
If Google wasn't here we'd have DuckDuckGo or Startpage or BING or, don't loose it S11, Yahoo!
And they probably all rely on the big G to some extent.

I do object to Samsung and LG putting cameras and microphones in my living and bedroom though. Smart TV's my ... OH! Sorry, different thread.

martix · 2016-11-26 21:01:22

Actually, trying to organize a gogglefree-life almost creates a tech-expert out of every ordinary user. This is an interesting challenge and process as well to learn about things like Sailfish, microG, mapzen/lost, f-droid or even the search engine searx.

Sector11 · 2016-11-26 21:42:53

Easy - sledge hammer your smart phone, computer, tablet, and car if it's a 'new one with a gps', quit your job and move to a log cabin deep in the woods with lots of tree coverage (satellites ya know) or the side of a mountain - maybe a cave.

The problem with what you've said up there, matrix, is you are connected to the internet. "They" are therefore tracing you. It's like BLwbg said:

Jmo but what's the use of having a smartphone if someone cripples it. For real in the 21st century privacy isn't practical nor realistic anymore. There are so many ways to track and watch someone, losing sleep over it w/o good cause is futile. ie: Your carrier can easily see every call you make/receive on that phone. Your ISP or someone else watching your net travels can track you all over online. VPN, anony proxy this, that or not. If you want to install apps from the Google Play store then yeah you'll need to set up an acct. There are other reputable ( sorta) app stores around. Amazon maintains one, the Opera browser maker people do too. Where you can install them directly from the browser and there are others, f-droids been mentioned. In addition to other places too.

... and then later said....

Satelites, camera's, cell tower signals ( yes, even without location services or by switching to a provider you think is more privacy friendly, that carrier can fairly accurately and easily follow your movement patterns anyway) ... this, that a gazillion other things.

it's all in that: "gazillion other things" that has me worried.

Now - who wants to buy a bridge? I have two in the northeastern part of the US for sale.

BTW: Does pushing a thumbtack through the microphone hole in my Smart TV and putting a piece of Electrical tape over the camera lens make me paranoid? ]:D ]:D

- of course I'm kidding, I don't own a smart TV yet... but soon enough there won't be a choice

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-26 23:30:21

No ... you don't have to use google. Last time I'd checked had never heard about google sending a buncha thugs out to make people use any of their services. If this starts happening then yeah, will muster up the energy and righteous indignation to get real pissed off at Goog Inc.

Messing round, for real ... whatever makes people happy. This seems appropriate for the occasion. Just a foreword, it's a user-agent finger printing website. That will assess whatever info it can from your browser and rate how unique that particular set of characteristics are. Just so nobody thinks I'm working for the KGB and trying to lure em into a trap. Which that's exactly what I'm doing but that's another story.

Messing around some more. Vll!

Nope some more babble about this. First time I visited the thing, had noscript running and it said I was almost unique, that there were 18 other people out of 250thou that had visited the site, who had the same fingerprint. For giggles, went ahead and allowed the site in noscript and it told me I was unique. Yay, Im unique ... always wanted to be ya know. Though I'd really like to know who those other 18 people are !

LMAO Sector.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-26 23:46:40)

Sector11 · 2016-11-26 23:43:06

OH NO! They found me! I knew I should have cleaned off my monitor before clicking on BLwbg's link!

Honey - I'll be late for dinner, pack a bag will ya.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-27 15:52:55

That user-agent finger printing thing is interesting to me. Not many organizations have the online presence imo be to able to effectively employ such a thing. Goog Inc could though, with installs of Google analytics, adsense and many other sources to collect, compile and analyze such data. Weird man, just weird.

Just running noscript prevented the site from being able to profile a bunch of those metrics off of my system. Obviously many of them are discovered by using javascript. Still even without those additional metrics, said my user agent was identifiable down to 18 out of 250 thousand plus and again no doubt, folks with enough skill and resources will have many additional means at hand to further narrow that down, shrugs. Anyway apparently and ironically the more efforts someone employs to ensure their online privacy. Could in fact be making it easier to identify and track them via this type of thing.

Another funny thing I've found, dns leaks for people using Vpn's. As well as it's supposedly known that many of the free vpn service providers actually sell users data to outside parties. But you may ask wth a dns leak is. People using a vpn service but aren't using a good one or have it misconfig'ed so that the dns look up requests are still being sent to their ISP or someone they wouldn't approve of dns servers. So yeah, they'd still see every website that person was visiting. Saw one person advise switching to Google's public dns servers as a way to ensure their vpn privacy. LMAO.

Anyway just interesting semi-google related babblings. These are two tiny examples of what I meant by a gazillion other things Sector. Am not an expert on the topic, however am sure there are no shortage of them on staff with whichever organizations and they scoff and laugh with mirth at the majority of people's futile efforts to protect their privacy online. Again it's my considered opinion that taking excessive measures to try to do so can ironically draw more attention to someone and make a govt or other organization take more interest in their online activities.

Aka: What are you trying to hide and why are you doing all these weird ( and totally detectable things which aren't normal) Hmmmmm ... let's check you out now. Verses folks hiding in plain sight a drop in the ocean in the online world. Though funny, once they ( probably easily ) crack all these paranoid people's efforts to evade them. They find out, omg ... sheesh, it's another one who visits naughtynuns.com alot.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-28 15:41:29)

Sector11 · 2016-11-27 16:13:32

... and or they find out: Damn, just another geek with no perversions - like 27 billion other people, nothing to see here, move on.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-27 16:54:02

^ I hear tinfoit hats are all the rage in the latest Paris fashion nowadays.

Can see uses of a VPN, guess they're going to be more effective when people are making end to end connections with nodes they actually have full exclusive control over. Or if a server is playing in the middle, it'd still have to be the same. Exclusively administrated by whichever party is seeking privacy.

Though again would be shocked if there aren't people out there who can crack it, intercept it, divert it to insecure etc etc etc ( some form of man in the middle tech(s)/whatever else). It's what certain organizations do for a living and aren't just good at their jobs, they're composed of some of the best in the world. Anyway will stop feeding the paranoia. For the majority think this is really mostly a non-issue and that it gets way overblown and fed by uber-paranoid people and FUD. Shrugs but that's just one opinion on this topic.

Vll!

Dang it, more babble o course.
I do take some easy and reasonable precautions myself though. Stuff like noscript ... more for security and reducing system overhead than privacy. Javascripts are known to have security concerns, not to mention you visit a site and it tries to excute 46 fricken scripts ! Ma poor RAM, cpu and downloads speeds arghhhhh !
Plus disable 3rd party cookies, just don't want sites installing cookies from other places. For that matter don't particularly want them installing cookies at all usually, shrugs. Though yes of course there's plenty of ways someone can easily mitigate this kinda thing.
Not saying people shouldn't take steps. Only saying it's funny to watch the tinfoilers go about it. Even where it gets to the point that they're impeding themselves and negatively effecting their techlife doing so. Also while knowing the whole time that for most of them all the extreme efforts they employ are futile.
Sighs ... gotta do it.
Xyz tinfoiler spots cop at supermarket, takes off running. Cop notices and gives chase, cause now said tinfoiler has given them a basis for reasonable suspicion, that they are doing something wrong.
Cop tackles tinfoiler, tinfoiler immediately screams you can't search me. Cop searches them, cause the law allows them to do so given the circumstances to ensure they have no weapons which could be a threat to this officer.
Finds nothing, looks at tinfoiler skeptically. What the hell are you doing bud ? Holds them there for awhile trying to ascertain what da hell is going on here.
Tinfoiler: I have a right to remain silent !!! ( hey at least this tinfoiler knows some of their constitutional rights. )
Cop ... well, errrr ok, ( if they wanted to be an ahole could drum up a resisting arrest or other charge but decides the paperwork isn't worth it and to let the tinfoiler go about their business.) After running their name through dispatch to find out whether they have wants, warrants etc, nope, nope and nope. Go ahead, have a nice day, you are one strange cookie.
Tinfoiler goes home, fires up comp and immediately goes to tinfoil central to tell everybody how this cop tackled em out of nowhere, shook em down and interrogated them for no reason at all.

One more edit, arghhhh ! This isn't aimed at anyone here, even anyone in particular. Just mostly being a dork folks.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-27 18:05:39)

Sector11 · 2016-11-27 19:21:32

Tinfoiler goes home, fires up comp and immediately goes to tinfoil central to tell everybody how this cop tackled em out of nowhere, shook em down and interrogated them for no reason at all.

hahahahahaha OH that's so true! Or at least; could be. But the cop had reason, the guy was running because he saw the cop. Kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't situ for the cop really!

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-27 19:50:00

^:D Was mostly just being silly. Though don't doubt how many of us would be shocked by how often something that stupid has actually happened, shrugs. Trying to reign in the desire to babble about this kinda stuff. It's amusing and infuriating in so many ways. For me I trust in nature, sorta like fate or destiny or whatever.

When tech needed them, thank goodness people like Richard Stallman were in the right place, at the right time. Same for so many others too. Think the universe has a way of finding equilibrium and balances out. Though am not saying I plan on sitting around and letting things take care of themselves. Do what I can usually to make things better and like to see other people doing the same. No shortage of good people in the world.

Not as active in many things as I'd like to be though. You know what they say ... the whole, "all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing" thing. Oh well ... end babble. Kinda believe ( well more like I know) Goog Inc is by no means snow white but don't think they're the evil empire so many appear to express. Per usual from my experience the truth's somewhere in the middle between two extremes. A shade of gray ... Blahblahblah.

Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-27 19:54:11)

martix · 2016-11-27 20:32:34

That amiunique site is interesting. However my results do not really concern me as I do not even use Windows or Firefox 45. Btw there are some similar sites, e.g. https://panopticlick.eff.org/ http://webkay.robinlinus.com/ or https://www.browserleaks.com/canvas The later site shows why it is a good idea to use a canvas blocker.
@Sector11 Of course that's correct with the connection: If someone is connected to the internet, he/she is traceable. However there might be a difference in using the internet in a careless way by posting and revealing all kinds of private data. Or just revealing what is supposed to be revealed and using services in a careful way. So if startpage or searx are great and these sites do not collect private date, in my eyes they are preferable in comparison to google. This attitude might start already by choosing the OS (in this respect using #bÍ is surely different to using Windows) and end by using a phone with e.g. Sailfish instead of Android. However if someone likes apple, MS or google services, that's fine by me, freedom of choice prevails. However, while searching for alternatives for mainstream software or some google-service, I'm always amazed how great the open source world is.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-27 21:06:06

Dang it ... dang it ... dang it ... dang it, dang it ! One more, why not ? Arghhhh !

Just a simple reality check and no insult intended. People use xyz services, from x provider, tools and software, this ... that etc. Bottomline is they have no idea whether or not those people are trustworthy. Who owns/operates them or what practices are in place in terms of what the end result will be.

Ohhhh ... this service is an excellent, anonymous alternative to xyz, they're so much better. ie: For all anyone knows Google Inc owns/operates that alternative search engine and none would be the wiser.

Not uncommon at all for Corp(s) to do such things. Been everyday practice since jebuz was in diapers. Or as noted for those providers of xyz thing to cooperate with and or sell data to whoever. Common sense dictates in order to provide a service to people, that whatever provider has to have a way to pay for it. Particularly if they have to furnish a lot of resources to serve large numbers of people/users.

Or those providers have ambitions to compete with the biggies like Google Inc themselves. With the eventual goal of monetizing it too, showing ads too ( which they may already be doing, getting paid by Google or whoever for ads displayed/PPC/PPA/CPM ... whatever.

Am sure there are some non-profits or whatever that actually do make such efforts. Though without doing some real digging into the facts, majority would have no clue whether the providers they're relying on qualify.

Anyway just more babble, the Borg will be along shortly to collect us all anyway, so do not worry. Will stop playing devils advocate, as it's pointless and an endlessly complex subject I'm getting burned out on atm. Folks should do whatever they feel is right and/or makes their happy places tingle, shrugs.

Vll!

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-27 21:16:13)

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-28 16:22:53

Some silver lining/hope type things. Since much of what I've been posting comes off as dooms dy babble.

There are plenty of ways to get anonymity online too. Vast majority of which don't require specialized tools, equipment etc. Simply rely on common sense, as follows.

Buy pc secondhand or new with no solid connection to you. Use any of the numerous open public hotspots. Compute to hearts content. Though of course, once a person starts assoc personal data with that system, can change the degree of anonymity obviously.

Extra tech ninja pts. Someone can get a directional antenna, a router and mayhaps require a few additional investments and access open hotspots from a fair distance. Coupled with the above. Considering doing this myself. Simply because hey, in the states, depending upon where you live many of us are within reasonable distance of a free wifi hotspot(s). Why pay for something you can get free ? Shrugs.

notes: Though clearly doing this type of thing can come with inherent security and privacy issues itself. Are many ways to mitigate that though.

Pay 4 part of a friendly neighbors wifi and shared access ( or if they really like you just obtain their wireless password.) At least in this situation the acct with the ISP won't be associated with you, however logins, cookies and other things could be. Whatever, think it's a good idea again just for the savings. If you're paying part of it, helps you and helps a good neighbor.

Many reiterations of this type of thing. It can go on and on and someone could implement tons of additional layers to how they have things config'ed for privacy or online anonymity.

Still think for majority of people, trying to use tech for everyday purposes. A lot of headaches and troubles, often without someone knowing what they're doing anyway in a futile effort to maintain privacy online. Still though, if it's makes people happy, then nothing wrong with it and not my place to judge anyway.

Though do feel compelled to point out obvious flaws. Such as x-person says I rely on and highly recommend xyz-provider. While obviously having no idea ( and often no real way of ever ascertaining such things) who xyz provider is or what they're actually doing behind the scenes.

Vll!

Random obs on fact: Imo and based on experience, "the devils in the details". The situation can change radically depending on many of the details involved. Goal, usecase, who is being competed with or acting as opposition ... etc etc <add infinity here>. The stuff above certainly won't mask anyone from a govt agency or whoever else in that league. Shrugs.
There's about a million different approaches someone can employ for online anonymity. I can't do it justice and there are numerous quality books and resources online about the topic. Just babbling, mostly about the possibility of nixers getting some free wifi.

Bein a dork:

Ok my personal setup, shhhhhh, don't tell anybody ok ?

Ok 1st I have to login using 3 diff passwords, press a special key combo, so that the self destruct script doesn't wipe the disk + enter a retina scan, so the comp knows it's me. Afterwards it's very simple, piggyback off a neighbors wifi connection, to another neighbors connection. Then bounce via vpn tunneling through 23 proxy servers and a satelite relay to Uberstan, fire up the browser and yay ! Naughtynuns.com and nobody's the wiser ! Total privacy !

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-28 17:30:56)

MAC the Bloody · 2016-11-28 17:48:22

BLwillbegreat! wrote:

Naughtynuns.com and nobody's the wiser !

Until you told us about it here.

BLizgreat! · 2016-11-28 17:57:31

^LOL ... Dratz ! Heya Anaconda, hope you're doing well man.

Some goog related babble:
Google Inc is doing some things that kinda concern me in regards mobile. Making some real power plays with Android and Chrome. Mozilla's browser market share is dropping like a stone (desktop and mobile) and depending upon which data source someone looks at, Chrome is really dominating.
Since Goog made the brilliant decision to make Chrome the default ( and oem's agreed) on most ootb Android devices. Just hoping it doesn't become a repeat of the M$/IE days, on either platform.
As for Android itself, yep it's taking over much of mobile computing. Not surprising considering it's based on gnu/linux and the Nix kernel. From what I've discovered the core OS is open source and surely likely to stay that way. Goog isn't stupid, it's in their best interests, to somewhat cooperate with and give open sourcers access to help develop things. Plenty of free open source devs contributing to it, on top of their paid staff.
Then end up taking whichever contribs please them. Incorporate into the official OS. Goog ( or oems)stack whatever closed source software, drivers and config's on the releases they put out.
Oh well ... guessing there will always be unlock/mod friendly devices around and much someone can do to mod/tweak all hades out of stock or custom ROM's regardless.
Though just tend to get a lil worried, if/when too much power winds up concentrated in one or too few hands. Hoping Goog doesn't get too far out of keeping with their "do no evil" motto. Mentioned in the ocean of babble I've slapped up on the forum.
Google knows full well da power of the open source development model vs closed(do it all inhouse)Chromium, Android etc. Also mentioned seriously doubt Goog Inc would be where they are today or perhaps even exist at all if it weren't for open source. So I hope they remember that and show proper gratitude for it.
For me, it's always going to be gnu/Linux on desktop-etc and likely Android for mobile. Though will hop to whatever pure Nix offerings eventually emerge on mobile or whatever hybrid stays closest to being fully open source, as circumstances allow. Which offer the best hardware support and functionality. Just more random babbling folks.

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2016-11-28 20:59:41)

#61 2016-11-25 21:09:32

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#62 2016-11-26 11:25:25

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#63 2016-11-26 13:07:36

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#64 2016-11-26 15:55:21

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#65 2016-11-26 16:00:06

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#66 2016-11-26 19:17:37

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#67 2016-11-26 21:01:22

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#68 2016-11-26 21:42:53

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#69 2016-11-26 23:30:21

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#70 2016-11-26 23:43:06

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#71 2016-11-27 15:52:55

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#72 2016-11-27 16:13:32

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#73 2016-11-27 16:54:02

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#74 2016-11-27 19:21:32

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#75 2016-11-27 19:50:00

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#76 2016-11-27 20:32:34

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#77 2016-11-27 21:06:06

Re: Do I really "need" Google

#78 2016-11-28 16:22:53

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#79 2016-11-28 17:48:22

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#80 2016-11-28 17:57:31

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