bl-welcome - Brave Horizons

Horizon_Brave · 2016-08-11 19:24:39

Take my opinion with saltine crackers... but what big advantage would shimming in an ssh server provide for BL? I used to have an ssh port open on my ras pi, so I could have a poor man's vpn when I was out and about, and I checked my router's firewall logs, and I was just being repeatedly hammered on with failed login attempts... To me in my opinion, it's not worth the extra effort to add, and may cause more trouble, patching, down the line... Weren't we just discussing how BL is supposed to start you off with a nice clean slate and have you build it up from your own needs?

pvsage · 2016-08-11 20:50:23

^ & ^^ Two good points; suggestion withdrawn.

Horizon_Brave · 2016-08-11 21:38:56

@pvsage
Hey, that's just my opinion, I'm definitely not the authority on it, but that's how i see it..

@Johnraff,
Offer to do the volti>volumeicon switch and all the reconfiguration that goes with it. (For existing users only, Deuterium will have that OOTB.)

Does this mean that a new user downloading Deuterium clean will automatically get volumeicon, or will they be presented with a choice? Might that not be a good idea to give the option still for volti since we've had so much trouble with it? Wouldn't a clean break from it be better?

Last edited by Horizon_Brave (2016-08-11 21:39:53)

johnraff · 2016-08-12 01:37:43

@pvsage there doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for adding the ssh server by default anyway, but just to clarify, by minimal I meant not in consequences but in complexity of execution. Installing a single package by way of bl-welcome and a metapackage might be seen as overkill, but I guess originally Philip might have thought there could be other packages to add in later on. Anyway, now the metapackage is there, there doesn't seem much point in removing it.

Now xaos52 has added an "install" option to the bl-sshconfig-pipemenu and I've removed the "devel">"ssh-server" page from bl-welcome. (in delerium)

johnraff · 2016-08-12 01:47:18

Horizon_Brave wrote:

johnraff wrote:
Offer to do the volti>volumeicon switch and all the reconfiguration that goes with it. (For existing users only, Deuterium will have that OOTB.)
Does this mean that a new user downloading Deuterium clean will automatically get volumeicon...?

Yes, there's no reason to hang on to volti.

When existing users upgrade their systems, the new bl-welcome (they'd have to run it) will check if they still have volti on their system, and no volumeicon (is there a better test?), and if so will offer to do the switch for them, along with all that config stuff.

tknomanzr · 2016-08-12 02:08:41

^ Yeah test for both so it doesnt mess with other setups. I use a pure PA setup nowadays.

johnraff · 2016-08-12 02:22:58

^Right, I thought [Volti]+[No volumeicon] would catch the users who might want to do the switch, and leave out those who've already changed things. They'll be asked first anyway of course.

Horizon_Brave · 2016-08-12 02:28:47

Hopefully not off topic, but for Deuterium in general, is there a time limit to get it out in conjunction with Debian Stretch release? Meaning is there anything in Stretch that we need to be released, so it'll work in Deuterium? Or can Deuterium stand on it's own without Stretch's arrival?

johnraff · 2016-08-12 03:18:38

The BunsenLabs version that is hoped to go out some time after Stretch will be called Helium.

Deuterium is an interim "point release" for Debian Jessie that we're hoping will be out "soonish" because it fixes some current issues, and gets polished in a lot of little areas.

Horizon_Brave · 2016-08-12 03:53:46

johnraff wrote:

The BunsenLabs version that is hoped to go out some time after Stretch will be called Helium.
Deuterium is an interim "point release" for Debian Jessie that we're hoping will be out "soonish" because it fixes some current issues, and gets polished in a lot of little areas.

Right Right! I knew that, I've just been seeing Deuterium all day, while browsing the github it was a slip of the tongue!

Thanks for the answer though

johnraff · 2016-08-13 01:51:24

And Helium will be based on Stretch, so, no, it won't be usable (or even exist) till Stretch is released.

pvsage · 2016-08-13 09:28:51

^ We don't intend to produce alpha builds during the freeze?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-08-13 09:45:35

pvsage wrote:

We don't intend to produce alpha builds during the freeze?

I could set up a testing OBS repository to ship any stretch-based packages and encourage testers to `dist-upgrade` to those repositories from BL-H

johnraff · 2016-08-16 02:24:08

pvsage wrote:

We don't intend to produce alpha builds during the freeze?

Good question.

Perhaps the roadmap to Helium is a topic for a new thread in "Development"?

Last edited by johnraff (2016-08-16 02:26:01)

johnraff · 2016-08-16 04:45:47

So, the bl-welcome coming up in Deuterium is starting to look like this. Libreoffice, Printing and SSH-server have been taken out, because they're all handled by pipemenus. The Extra Images install could also be taken out if it had a pipemenu to go to. Would an item at the bottom of the Graphics pipemenu seem OK? If so it could also come out of bl-welcome easily enough.

My feeling is that Java and the dev- options should go in a new "system" pipemenu - unless anyone has a better suggestion? Either way, that will take a while to sort out, so post-Deuterium I guess.

Flash might also be better elsewhere but anyway, for now, let's keep it in bl-welcome where a lot of the code is already written.

Adding in the new items (I'd forgotten the meta-all option), does this look reasonable for Deuterium's bl-welcome?

Issue warning.
check-repos: add any missing "contrib" or "non-free" enties to sources.list. This should be unnecessary in the future.
apt-update and apt-upgrade
system-tweaks
- Offer to install PAE kernel if processor supports it. (For users who installed from CD)
- If laptop detected, offer to upgrade xfce4-power-manager from backports and remove fdpowermon if not needed.
- (NEW) Offer to do the volti>volumeicon switch and all the reconfiguration that goes with it. (For existing users only, Deuterium will have that OOTB.)
- (NEW) Offer to rewrite the composition>tint2 stuff in autostart: remove the ampersand at the end of bl-compositor --start & to make sure compton is up before moving on to the next item.(Existing users only)
(NEW) Detect CD install and offer to install bunsen-meta-all
Offer to add Debian Backports.
Offer to add BL backports.
(REWORK) Offer Flash options.
Offer to install extra images. > MOVE TO GRAPHICS PIPEMENU?

We'd like to move these out too, but probably after the Deuterium release:

Offer to install Java
Development options.
- version-control-tools
- lamp-stack
- packaging-tools

The NEW items are mostly easily doable. Can anyone suggest a good test for a CD install, as opposed to a regular full-iso install, in order to offer the meta-all install? Just look for the presence or absence of certain packages?

The Flash reworking still needs some decisions making. That has its own thread: https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=2414

Head_on_a_Stick · 2016-08-16 07:23:18

johnraff wrote:

does this look reasonable for Deuterium's bl-welcome?

Looks good to me.

Horizon_Brave · 2016-08-16 14:03:15

(NEW) Detect CD install and offer to install bunsen-meta-all
Offer to add Debian Backports.
Offer to add BL backports.

I forget, during the bl-welcome is there a brief explanation as to what backports actually are to newbies to linux and debian? I know at least for me, I didn't really know the significance or idea behind what backports where and how they worked in package obtaining

johnraff · 2016-08-17 04:28:29

Here's what bl-welcome currently has to say about Debian backports:

bl-welcome wrote:

Debian backports are packages taken from the next Debian release (called "testing"), adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable. If you enable this repository you will be able to upgrade some programs to newer versions, or install some programs not available in Debian stable.
However, backports cannot be tested as extensively as Debian stable, and are provided on an as-is basis, with risk of incompatibilities with other components in Debian stable. It is therefore recommended to only select single backported packages that fit your needs, and not use all available backports.

and, in Deuterium, about Bunsen backports:

BunsenLabs backports are packages taken from other Debian or Debian-based releases, or other sources such as GitHub, adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable. If you enable this repository you will be able to upgrade some programs to newer versions, or install some programs not available in Debian stable.
However, BunsenLabs backports are not tested extensively, and are provided on an as-is basis, with risk of incompatibilities with other components in Debian stable. It is therefore recommended to consider carefully whether you need a backported package before choosing to install it.

Suggestions for improvement are gratefully received!

pvsage · 2016-09-20 05:30:53

Bumping this to change my position regarding the Stern Warning page. Rather than sending them to a Mutt message (which is what apt-listchanges does and what I was thinking of for my previous position), I think what the user needs to type should force them to think of the consequences, like "If I break it, i get to keep the pieces."

johnraff · 2016-09-20 05:54:19

^easily done.

---
On the whole topic of moving stuff out of bl-welcome and into pipemenus, I'm starting to back off a bit. The welcome script is only run once, or when the user specifically calls it up, while the menu is in your face every day. I'm wondering just how much nicer it would actually be for users to have all the devel stuff and Flash installation etc. added to a submenu of Menu>System? Irritating, and perhaps even harder to find when you need it, compared with just running bl-welcome one more time? Also, considering new users can just bypass the whole devel section with a single click.

Maybe the way things are at the moment is about right, in fact?

Last edited by johnraff (2016-09-20 05:55:29)

#21 2016-08-11 19:24:39

Re: bl-welcome - Brave Horizons

#22 2016-08-11 20:50:23

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#23 2016-08-11 21:38:56

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#24 2016-08-12 01:37:43

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#31 2016-08-13 01:51:24

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#32 2016-08-13 09:28:51

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#33 2016-08-13 09:45:35

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#34 2016-08-16 02:24:08

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