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#101 2015-12-04 14:24:26

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Irritated? I'm not irritated, I'm jaw-on-the-floor astonished.

We are posting on the BunsenLabs forums. Our users are comprised of computer users and programmers ranging from the novice to the expert. This particular thread's title implies that the users in this thread are fairly computer savvy.

If, here, we cannot agree that Debian and Arch both use the Linux kernel and the GNU GCC compiler and essentially only differ in their architecture support, installation procedures and package management systems, then water is dry and poisons are good for you.

Whatever.

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#102 2015-12-04 15:18:20

Irulan
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

I happen to agree with Stallman.

distro-hopping is between Linux Distributions (Redhat, Fedoro, Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, Arch, etc).
OS-hopping is between OS's (OSX, Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, ReactOS)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution

-Hinto

Last edited by hinto (2015-12-04 15:29:20)

#103 2015-12-04 15:27:53

tknomanzr
BL Die Hard
From: Around the Bend
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,029

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ Pretty much this....different OS implies different kernel in use, different tools, different philosophy, and entirely different low-level code base for things such as memory management, IPC, etc.

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#104 2015-12-04 15:49:52

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

pingu wrote:

I read Gentoo and decided to jump right into the discussion.
I just want to say that in my opinion, gentoo is a distro. Even though the user does much more configuring (endless lists of use flags) on its side than in the normal distro,  those choices are usually made by the maintainers in a binary distro (somebody has to chose something at some point). So if when a debian dev decides if he/she is going to compile sudo with insults he's mainting a distro, why wouldn't gentoo be a distro when I chose to compile sudo with insults? So what's the differnce? I tend to find the difference between OS and Distro still hard to define/understand though...

Distro is short form for distribution. The difference between an OS and distro is hard to define, when we think of Arch, Gentoo/Funtoo, Crux and some like that. But, when we think of Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Mageia, CentOS, Puppy, Sabayon, Slitaz, TinyCore etc, they are really distros.
 
Installing Gentoo/Funtoo is a headache, and as far as it happens in chroot and in the background, one can have a go at it. I am letting it (Funtoo) happen that way. Maybe, one day, I might have a fully installed Funtoo with Openbox.

Anyway, does it matter, if we distro-hop, or OS-hop, as far as we are experimenting and experiencing something else than one fixed distro (or OS)?

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#105 2015-12-04 15:55:22

Irulan
Guest

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

FWIW Not hard....

https://crux.nu/
"Introduction
CRUX is a lightweight Linux distribution for the x86-64 architecture targeted at experienced Linux users."

https://www.archlinux.org/
"A simple, lightweight distribution
You've reached the website for Arch Linux, a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple."

https://www.gentoo.org/
"Welcome to Gentoo, a flexible, source-based Linux distribution that becomes just about any system you need—and much more"

http://www.funtoo.org/Welcome
"Funtoo Linux (distrowatch) is a Linux-based operating system that is a variant of Gentoo Linux."

They are all Linux.
-H

#106 2015-12-05 02:41:07

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@ostrolek, by extension a distro-hopper can be an OS-hopper and is, of course, welcome in this thread, in this forum, in this world. Just please, do not make definitive statements that are incorrect if possible. And if you want to call a distro an OS, go for it. Thanks!

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#107 2015-12-05 09:51:56

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ It was just a question of the hyphen use, that's all. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyphen, http://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction … ish/hyphen
Miriam-Webster and Cambridge doesn't appear to know the word distro http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona … ons/distro , http://dictionary.cambridge.org/spellch … /?q=distro, but Oxford dictionary has one line, http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin … ish/distro and a link, http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin … ibution__2

People can make definitions in their websites, but dictionaries might not (still) have it, or they don't want to have it. So, telling me to get a dictionary doesn't help, does it?

There is the never ending Oxbridge discussion (rivalry), which only adds beauty to English.

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#108 2015-12-05 10:04:26

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

ostrolek wrote:

There is the never ending Oxbridge discussion (rivalry), which only adds beauty to English.

+1, well said smile

To bring this back on topic: which systems are you running at the moment, ostrolek?


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#109 2015-12-05 11:08:57

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
ostrolek wrote:

There is the never ending Oxbridge discussion (rivalry), which only adds beauty to English.

+1, well said smile

To bring this back on topic: which systems are you running at the moment, ostrolek?

Openbox on Arch, BunsenLabs, Debian Sid and on Ubuntu 16.04 (from 15.10 mini iso) and trying to install Funtoo. Hope, I'd have enough patience to finish Funtoo. Or, I might get Sabayon mini, install it using chroot and try to create an Openbox Gentoo system. I had put Funtoo on the back burner for the moment.   

Installed Debian 8.2 Cinnamon Live in the testing partition yesterday (by chroot method), got rid of live-boot (and relevant stuff), reinstalled lightdm. Unsquashing and installing took about 15 mins. Add an installer and squash it back, add isolinux, and I might have a Debian 8.2 Cinnamon Live iso.

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#110 2015-12-05 11:24:10

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

ostrolek wrote:

Openbox on Arch, BunsenLabs, Debian Sid and on Ubuntu 16.04 (from 15.10 mini iso) and trying to install Funtoo. Hope, I'd have enough patience to finish Funtoo. Or, I might get Sabayon mini, install it using chroot and try to create an Openbox Gentoo system. I had put Funtoo on the back burner for the moment

That's quite a selection smile

Any favourites?


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#111 2015-12-05 11:45:05

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
ostrolek wrote:

Openbox on Arch, BunsenLabs, Debian Sid and on Ubuntu 16.04 (from 15.10 mini iso) and trying to install Funtoo. Hope, I'd have enough patience to finish Funtoo. Or, I might get Sabayon mini, install it using chroot and try to create an Openbox Gentoo system. I had put Funtoo on the back burner for the moment

That's quite a selection smile

Any favourites?

Can't say really, but Arch and Ubuntu 16.04 on Openbox are the rolling ones.

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#112 2015-12-05 13:09:29

pingu
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 128

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

ostrolek wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
ostrolek wrote:

There is the never ending Oxbridge discussion (rivalry), which only adds beauty to English.

+1, well said smile

To bring this back on topic: which systems are you running at the moment, ostrolek?

Openbox on Arch, BunsenLabs, Debian Sid and on Ubuntu 16.04 (from 15.10 mini iso) and trying to install Funtoo. Hope, I'd have enough patience to finish Funtoo. Or, I might get Sabayon mini, install it using chroot and try to create an Openbox Gentoo system. I had put Funtoo on the back burner for the moment.

@ostrolek

You shouldn't need Sabayon to build Gentoo. You can install it from your Debian, or Arch or whatever.. I've never tried Sabayon, but I know it's a binary distro, so If you plan on getting closer to Gentoo, that's probably not going to help.
Also.. Gentoo has an awesome forum and 24/7 irc channel (#gentoo @freenode), but they are not going to help Funtoo(or they will want to burn you at a stake after finding out you have Funtoo or Sabayon installed tongue)  for example. So my suggestion would be to invest your time on Gentoo instead of Funtoo or other Gentoo based distros, since you're having some trouble with the installations and there seems to be less support for non Gentoo Gentoo systems. And don't shy away from using the irc chat, they are not going to let you fail.

Last edited by pingu (2015-12-05 13:11:06)


"Chuck Norris can compile syntax errors."

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#113 2015-12-05 14:15:41

nobody0
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ Of course, I am using my working setup to install any other distro/OS using chroot. Installing Gentoo is not the problem, but the time it takes to install an app is the headache. 

...(or they will want to burn you at a stake after finding out you have Funtoo or Sabayon installed)

This is the biggest problem we have in the Linux world. Daniel Robbins created Gentoo, then retired from it and later created Funtoo. If not for him, Gentoo wouldn't be there. Same as today, people would say something against Daniel Baumann, without whom live-build scripts for Debian wouldn't be here.

Arch Linux is different in this case, it respects its former developers. https://www.archlinux.org/people/developer-fellows/

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#114 2015-12-05 14:21:53

pingu
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 128

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

maybe I exagerated. but they wont waste time trying to help when they simply can't, and refuse to send other distro's users in a wild goose chase. smile

edit: (its not about the previous devs, it's about being different distros. You won't get any help on the arch forums asking about Manjaro for example -- actually I just assume not,... never tried it myself)

Last edited by pingu (2015-12-05 14:24:40)


"Chuck Norris can compile syntax errors."

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#115 2015-12-05 15:32:49

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

pingu wrote:

You won't get any help on the arch forums asking about Manjaro for example

I can confirm that:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … pport_ONLY
smile


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#116 2015-12-05 16:25:17

nobody0
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

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#117 2015-12-05 17:49:42

tknomanzr
BL Die Hard
From: Around the Bend
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,029

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Just based on that list @Otrolek, I think you should consider systemd-nspawn and start containerizing some of that. I really feel like HoaS was onto something there. Of course, if your intent in installing gentoo is to experiment with alternative init systems, I am unsure if that would work, but for the distros listed that are guaranteed to support systemd, it would, for sure.

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#118 2015-12-05 22:42:44

pingu
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 128

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

@ostrolek,
Have you tried using ufed to configure your useflags (it doens't cover the other config options on the make.conf though)?
(I ask because it's not obvious on the install handbook, and helps a ton to keep track of those bastards -- getting x to work could take long depending on the hardware but it shouldn't take too long)
4fCGY4dl.png


"Chuck Norris can compile syntax errors."

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#119 2015-12-06 08:11:10

nobody0
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 664

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

^ Thanks Pingu. At the moment I've put Gentoo/Funtoo on the back burner. When I start again, I'd be looking for your help.  At the moment, I am thinking (trying) to create a Debian live iso, as there is no more live.debian.net, for the moment trying out the Cinnamon edition.

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#120 2015-12-07 20:26:50

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,018

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Thanks to a recent thread here. Time has come again to mess with Arch. See what's changed and plan on giving it a fair chance this time around. Though seriously doubt any distro will ever pull me away from Debian.

Followed the offical doc's, install and basic config of base and base-devel system took a lil over an hour. Leaving me with an OS far from usable for much. Will take at least a couple more hours getting basic things config'd (video/audio, install dm, browser etc etc and customizations) and then will be able to begin forming an honest opinion of the distro.

Once it's usable plan on using it the majority of the time until reach a final conclusion on whether I like it enough to keep it onboard.

Long ago, settled on a 3 gnu/nix OS installs at any given time rule of thumb. Personally prefer bare metal and any more than this I've found to be a pain n the <censored> to bother keeping up with.

That Arch install would make 3, Linux Mint 17.2xfce ( really like Mint.), Debian Jessie 8.2 netinstall ( really wuv Debian) and now the new kid on the block.


Vll! smile

Last edited by BLizgreat! (2015-12-07 20:39:07)

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#121 2015-12-08 03:56:24

dummie789
Member
Registered: 2015-10-07
Posts: 23

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Been hunting around Linuxland since the initial sunset of #!, just in case for some odd reason BL doesn't quite take off (though it looks like it's picking up momentum like a comet!)  Wanting something similar to the #! spirit, I tried MX-14.4 and was very pleasantly surprised. I'm more interested in a Linux workhorse than a playhouse, and MX seems to fit that bill: compact, minimal eye-candy, Debian, lots of useful practical apps, stable, fast, etc. It's built on XFCE, but that works okay for me. I also tried its cousin, antix, but found it took a little too much work/time to get up to the level I'm looking for. Anyhow, just my 2.75-cents. My distro-hopping-days-for-fun are over, but in this case I felt it was a good move to build a safety hedge. I've got my work to do, so I need the superb powerful mix that is the heritage of Crunchbang. Looking forward to the glory days of BunsenLabs!!

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#122 2015-12-08 07:34:48

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

dummie789 wrote:

MX-14.4

+1 utterly awesome distribution.

Look out for MX15, the work they're doing is incredible smile
http://www.mepiscommunity.org/mx


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#123 2015-12-09 05:44:37

BLizgreat!
Resident Babbler - vll!
Registered: 2015-10-03
Posts: 1,018

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

Random update: Am thinking about overwriting Arch with the above named distro. big_smile

Once again ... though early on, just not seeing any real justification for all the extra hoops and buttpains someone has to endure to run Arch.

Not at all impressed with the system stats, not overly impressed with the package selection ( as there are numerous ways to do similar with Debian.) Not sure exactly what Arch's niche is, though there clearly is one and not @ all attempting to take away from the distro.

Just for me ... not clearly seeing any benefit for all the added time and buttpains involved in installing/config'n the distro. Am already abandoning the effort, feel I did give a fair chance ( 3 times) and nothing as far as can tell has changed.

Still massive headaches and overcomplications in setting up basic things, still not user friendly n terms of the time necessary to invest to deal with all the hassles, still no significant stats or performance differences that would justify putting oneself through such nonsense.

Just 2 cents. Vll! smile

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#124 2015-12-09 07:23:26

Snap
Member
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 465

Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

That's the beauty of Linux. Test them all and choose your poison. My own menu comprises three courses: I chose Debian (Sid) to start from a clean and small net install and build from it. PCLinuxOS to get it more pre-built, easy and frigging stable while still rolling. And Void for my particular headaches when I want to face a good spiced challenge.

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#125 2015-12-09 07:50:14

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Distro-hoppers anonymous

DragonFly BSD 4.4.1 is out (they skipped 4.4.0 due to the late inclusion of an OpenSSL patch):
https://www.dragonflybsd.org/release44/

Looks like it will support the HD4600 on my laptop so I may not have any GNU/Linux systems at all when I eventually [1] get my new SSD yikes

[1] Curse you Amazon!  mad


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