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#1 2018-12-19 07:17:11

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,100
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MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?


John
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#2 2018-12-19 07:36:35

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,484
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

interesting.
of course this is only the next logical step of Microsoft's :heart: OpenSource.
it makes me want to puke my guts out.
it's like white shop assistants with dreadlocks. or punks with freshly ripped & freshly washed clothes (by mum).

no, not really, only joking.

anyhow, what can you do.
Linux and its whole GPL'd app universe is free.
as long as they respect the GPL they can do what they want.
so let's keep a close eye on that.

but i will not use it, and i will continue to burn people with help requests about Linux on Windows, or worse, MS-Linux.

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#3 2018-12-19 07:48:46

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 610

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

'Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?' - actually, the question (asked by zdnet) is not precise enough. If the question is meant to be 'Could Microsoft release an open source WM and/or DE, based on customized Linux kernel (again, open source), and give support for this', then I think not. At least, not in the foreseeable future. It would require quite a turn in their business orientation. I mean, it would be really stupid to throw away existing code base (MSWin kernel, aka ntkernel), and existing user base ...

'Could Microsoft take Ubuntu (for example; or debian) and put some custom DE on this?' Possibly. With real support? This is something to be seen ...

Generally, this entire idea about open source Microsoft OS seems a bit clickbait, with vague statements.

Of course, this is only my opinion, I am not the expert in this.


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#4 2018-12-19 13:41:50

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,702

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

custom DE on this

That would be interesting ... to see.

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#5 2018-12-19 14:07:09

earlybird
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 664
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

Microsoft used to have a POSIX subsystem since early versions of Windows, actually, and the NT kernel has support for multiple personalities one of which is the windows system for Linux (WSL). Because the scope of the WSL is limited, releasing a distro might make since mostly because Microsoft are actually running a myriad on Linux systems already in Azure. Desktop is just a step up. Otherwise, with Visual Studio Code being based on Electron, some developer tools  people on Windows might use  already are cross-platform. Launching an own distro seems a bit like exceeding the goal in that dircetion.

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#6 2018-12-19 14:23:33

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

Now that would be interesting to see where MS will go with this. Considering the myriad of issues MS has had with Windows 10 lately I would like to think that they would like to have Linux powering the Windows interface we all come to know much like how Apple made OSX on a BSD base.


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#7 2018-12-19 16:05:54

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 610

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

DeepDayze wrote:

... Linux powering the Windows interface ...

You, as others, forget that it would require to write all device drivers (almost) from scratch ...

I think all those Microsoft2Linux stories are simply clickbaits. Microsoft will probably try to implement certain level of compatibility with linux, in fact compatibitliy as much as possible IMHO, but nothing serious as it may sound. Why would they? To what end?


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#8 2018-12-19 16:57:05

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

iMBeCil wrote:
DeepDayze wrote:

... Linux powering the Windows interface ...

You, as others, forget that it would require to write all device drivers (almost) from scratch ...

I think all those Microsoft2Linux stories are simply clickbaits. Microsoft will probably try to implement certain level of compatibility with linux, in fact compatibitliy as much as possible IMHO, but nothing serious as it may sound. Why would they? To what end?

My post was mainly conjecture and yes what you posted is well very true. Anything could happen though!


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#9 2018-12-19 17:00:21

glittersloth
...always giving it to you straight
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 719

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

Fwiw, there used to be a distro called Lindows a long time ago (just after the turn of the millennium, if memory serves). As expected, Microsoft took them to court. After that it became Linspire.

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#10 2018-12-19 19:18:30

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

glittersloth wrote:

Fwiw, there used to be a distro called Lindows a long time ago (just after the turn of the millennium, if memory serves). As expected, Microsoft took them to court. After that it became Linspire.

I remember that one and it had some pretty good reviews for a paid distribution. Seems Microsoft needed to bash Linux so it found a punching bag in Lindows/Linspire. Looks like it is still active and has put out a release earlier this year.


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#11 2018-12-20 02:56:36

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,100
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

As the linked article, and this one, suggest, Windows is becoming less important to MS, while still requiring the work of thousands of developers. It might make financial sense to transfer some of them to more profitable sectors, while using the (free) work of Linux devs to power a future desktop. Exploitation? Maybe, but FOSS is FOSS and if it really happens there might be some positive outcomes for Linux users:

1) Access to whatever GPL'd utilities MS make. How easy would it be for them to keep the source closed of libraries that interact with FOSS things?

2) Easier transfer to Linux for Windows users.

3) More currently Windows-only software might work on Linux.

4) Hardware manufacturers might take Linux support more seriously.

Well, as I said, if it happens...


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#12 2018-12-20 03:18:42

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

johnraff wrote:

As the linked article, and this one, suggest, Windows is becoming less important to MS, while still requiring the work of thousands of developers. It might make financial sense to transfer some of them to more profitable sectors, while using the (free) work of Linux devs to power a future desktop. Exploitation? Maybe, but FOSS is FOSS and if it really happens there might be some positive outcomes for Linux users:

1) Access to whatever GPL'd utilities MS make. How easy would it be for them to keep the source closed of libraries that interact with FOSS things?

2) Easier transfer to Linux for Windows users.

3) More currently Windows-only software might work on Linux.

4) Hardware manufacturers might take Linux support more seriously.

Well, as I said, if it happens...

While this may sound like a skunkworks endeavor, such a hypothetical distro from MS would surely be a win if it is done right. If MS can port the Windows desktop to Linux then that'll be a good thing to help bring Windows users to the Linux fold as well as having Linux as a  solid underpinning. It will certainly cause a big shift if this ever does come about as the device driver model will certainly have to change.

This can help Windows become more positioned to the cloud with less work considering the vast majority of servers on Azure are Linux based.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2018-12-20 03:19:36)


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#13 2018-12-20 03:20:26

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

Now only if Windows Server could be Linux-ified...


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#14 2018-12-20 06:36:16

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,100
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

DeepDayze wrote:

It will certainly cause a big shift if this ever does come about as the device driver model will certainly have to change.

My understanding is that a great number of what are considered drivers in Windows are kernel modules in Linux. Wrong? If Windows started using a Linux kernel wouldn't most of the driver work have already been done?

Last edited by johnraff (2018-12-20 06:36:47)


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#15 2018-12-20 10:30:00

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 610

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

johnraff wrote:

... If Windows started using a Linux kernel wouldn't most of the driver work have already been done?

Plenty of drivers would certainly (almost) work. I remember fwcutter and Broadcomm WiFi chips, where kernel module (driver?) has been made by extracting large part of the existing Windows driver.

However, to make a truly linux module would entail taking the source of the driver (in C?), recompile it with e.g. gcc, and make  suitable changes to make it kernel module. It is doable, but how quickly, how many manpower would it require?

Imagine NVidia making kernel module for GFX ... What about licenses, how would they adjust it to GPL? What about libraries for compilation with gcc? And their licences? From this standpoint, it would be easier for Microsoft to go via FreeBSD route (as Apple went).

Let's see what will happen, and hope for the best. I would like to see Microsoft makes its source code available, it would be fruitful for all parties involved. Come to think about it, I believe that in future the right business model is that of RedHat: free product (I mean CentOS and Fedora), with paid support for those who need it. (And, believe me, majority of people and companies would rather pay for support, than employ a person(s) for that.)

OK ... now I'm starting to rant too much lol Perhaps I should refer to my mantra: shut up when you don't have an educated opionion.


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#16 2018-12-20 17:56:53

cloverskull
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 306

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

Perhaps I'm the only one cautiously optimistic here. Devving on Windows with linux tooling is now a lot easier and a much better experience. I, for one, really like using GNU command line tools in a Windows dev environment.

I may be in a somewhat unique spot, but I don't really like dual booting, and I need Windows for gaming - linux just isn't there, and make fun of me if you want, but gaming is crucial for me tongue - so using Windows as my PC OS and then being able to use pieces of linux on-demand is thus far a pretty stellar experience.

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#17 2018-12-21 06:19:23

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,484
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

what i said earlier:

ohnonot wrote:

as long as they respect the GPL they can do what they want.
so let's keep a close eye on that.

let's just make sure MS respects the GPL.

beyond that, the real damage has been done long ago by the likes of google.
so let's make sure that doesn't get worse, and people still understand what open source really means.

johnraff wrote:

4) Hardware manufacturers might take Linux support more seriously.

this is getting better already, all the time.
not sure i want MS's support with anything Linux (and yes, i know the kernel is getting it already).

personally, i think they're going to spend some resources on that and then shelve it. it is unlikely to become the sort of self-milking cow that windows has become. not anytime soon.

Last edited by ohnonot (2018-12-21 06:20:02)

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#18 2019-01-18 13:59:43

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

I thought that was the point of their partnership with Novell, to keep alive their copyright/patents on parts of the unix/linux thing that they claim to have invented? If MS release anything I am sure it will be with Novell, possibly via the SUSE Enterprise distro. Sorry I never read all the thread so it may have been said before


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#19 2019-01-18 19:30:58

bigbenaugust
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From: unc.edu / the 919 / KIGX
Registered: 2017-05-20
Posts: 109

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

I was wondering just today why MS couldn't put out Office/Outlook for Linux. But then, they don't even make Teams for Linux, so it'll never happen.


--Ben
BL / MX / Raspbian... and a whole bunch of RHEL boxes. :)

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#20 2019-01-18 20:22:06

DeepDayze
Member
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 619

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

bigbenaugust wrote:

I was wondering just today why MS couldn't put out Office/Outlook for Linux. But then, they don't even make Teams for Linux, so it'll never happen.

That would be nice as it will help with the uptake of Linux within enterprises. Should not be too hard to port Office for Mac to Linux as Mac OSX is BSD based. Even a flatpak or app image be a good way to package it.

Last edited by DeepDayze (2019-01-18 20:23:00)


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#21 2019-01-19 06:15:34

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,484
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

bigbenaugust wrote:

I was wondering just today why MS couldn't put out Office/Outlook for Linux. But then, they don't even make Teams for Linux, so it'll never happen.

i just looked into my crystal ball:
they will, eventually, but it will only work on Microsoft Linux! devil

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#22 2019-01-20 15:30:57

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

bigbenaugust wrote:

I was wondering just today why MS couldn't put out Office/Outlook for Linux. But then, they don't even make Teams for Linux, so it'll never happen.

Why would they do that when the format of their documents is a fairly standard xml format. Theres not really a need to make their products open source providing open source software can export documents in a microsoft compatible format.

Their reasoning is the same, pretty much, as the reason many British people dont bother learning a foreign language. Everyone else speaks English.


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#23 2019-01-20 18:56:49

cloverskull
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 306

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

I use MacOS on my dev computer for work, and traditionally the only thing preventing folks from using linux was Outlook interoperability problems. Sadly, we did a test-case pilot of letting some devs use linux, but they were forced to use Ubuntu with our own internally hosted Ubuntu package repos.

Still, this is better than MacOS. smile

Perhaps if MicroSoft builds some kind of actual Outlook client for linux (Outlook Web is absolute garbage) than this might be a possibility. I'd rather use linux any day of the week!

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#24 2019-01-22 06:11:53

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,484
Website

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

cloverskull wrote:

Outlook interoperability problems

you mean people who have email accounts on microsoft products?
i never had email client problems on linux.

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#25 2019-01-27 22:55:05

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: MS-Linux? Lindows? Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

The absolute worst is that office 360 stuff microsoft make. you know the webmail version that companies such as BT use and then rebrand it? I have never known such a heap of .... as office 360 under the administration of BT.

I never had email client problems on linux

About a year ago I had to configure a SUSE server that was setup as a terminal server for some old VT220 terminals about 5 of them linked via a serial interface. The guy was still running Pine as a email client on a postfix server. It was actually fun once I worked out how it all worked but a nightmare with tls/ssl etc. Pine, not even alpine. That setup the guys got is like walking into a museum of computers but theyre running a multimillion pound business on it


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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