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#1 2021-08-14 08:36:52

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
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Bullseye Release

Bullseye was supposed to come out today...

https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/26/ … e_set_for/

It has not, but the day is long...

https://www.debian.org/download

I'll try and keep us updated.

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#2 2021-08-14 14:41:50

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,404
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Re: Bullseye Release

Release notes from the near future
https://www.debian.org/releases/bullsey … ase-notes/

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#3 2021-08-14 14:58:08

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Bullseye Release

So the clock is ticking...


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#4 2021-08-14 21:42:46

portaro
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2020-01-03
Posts: 59

Re: Bullseye Release

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#5 2021-08-14 22:56:46

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Bullseye Release

Awesome and now very soon beryllium will be released!


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#6 2021-08-15 05:26:28

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,434
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Re: Bullseye Release

Here's the full announcement:
https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210814


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#7 2021-08-15 06:17:19

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
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Re: Bullseye Release

^ And the Download links for the Live images...

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

The restrictions on package upgrades during the 'testing' soft freeze/hard freeze/full freeze period that starts about 6 months before the Official Release have made the introduction of game-stopping bugs before release almost nil.

It's no longer "It's ready when it's ready." It's now "It's ready within a few days of the Release Announcement made during the end of the full freeze."

Also, a stable OS beats an experimental OS and apt is better than pacman. Arch users, fight me (in the Off Topic forum, please.)

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#8 2021-08-15 12:25:07

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,119

Re: Bullseye Release

hhh wrote:

^ And the Download links for the Live images...

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

No thanks. Lack of nonfree firmware makes it a no go for me. YMMV.
And the community nonfree spins are too minimal.  I don't want to work that hard.

8bit


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#9 2021-08-15 12:50:54

Peregrino69
Member
Registered: 2016-03-11
Posts: 89

Re: Bullseye Release

eight.bit.al wrote:
hhh wrote:

^ And the Download links for the Live images...

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

No thanks. Lack of nonfree firmware makes it a no go for me. YMMV.
And the community nonfree spins are too minimal.  I don't want to work that hard.

8bit

This is what Debian currently provides ref non-free:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof … -firmware/

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#10 2021-08-15 17:29:58

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
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Re: Bullseye Release

^ Thanks for that. I'm surprised the unofficial images are already out, they came several months after the release of Buster.

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#11 2021-08-15 19:48:56

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,119

Re: Bullseye Release

eight.bit.al wrote:

And the community nonfree spins are too minimal.  I don't want to work that hard.

8bit

I take it back. Just booted the live non-free version. I misremembered or it's improved since I last looked.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-08-15 19:58:10)


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#12 2021-08-16 00:36:59

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Bullseye Release

hhh wrote:

^ And the Download links for the Live images...

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

The restrictions on package upgrades during the 'testing' soft freeze/hard freeze/full freeze period that starts about 6 months before the Official Release have made the introduction of game-stopping bugs before release almost nil.

It's no longer "It's ready when it's ready." It's now "It's ready within a few days of the Release Announcement made during the end of the full freeze."

Also, a stable OS beats an experimental OS and apt is better than pacman. Arch users, fight me (in the Off Topic forum, please.)

Good policy by Debian and with practically no showstoppers for the release.

Dobbie03 would be up to the challenge LOL.


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#13 2021-08-16 07:35:22

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,434
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Re: Bullseye Release

Firmware:

eight.bit.al wrote:

I misremembered or it's improved since I last looked.

The latter I think. The Debian-Installer people in particular seem to have been putting in work recently:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=989863
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … =989863#41

It looks as if even if you install from an official Debian iso, as long as you're able to boot to a terminal - and have net access - then you can do:

sudo apt install isenkram-cli
sudo  isenkram-autoinstall-firmware

and get the firmware your hardware wants, automatically. cool

Bullseye release announcement

There has been a lot of development on the Debian Installer, resulting in improved hardware support and other new features.

In some cases, a successful installation can still have display issues when rebooting into the installed system; for those cases there are a few workarounds that might help log in anyway. There is also an isenkram-based procedure which lets users detect and fix missing firmware on their systems, in an automated fashion. Of course, one has to weigh the pros and cons of using that tool since it's very likely that it will need to install non-free packages.

They still have to be careful of course not to include any non-free binary blobs in Debian proper, hence these backdoors and workarounds.

Last edited by johnraff (2021-08-16 09:20:17)


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#14 2021-08-16 08:39:28

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
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Re: Bullseye Release

^ Will that install b43 (legacy Broadcom) firmware, which has not been included in the last 2 non-free unofficial ISO releases?

If not (and I suspect it's not), BunsenLabs FTW!

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#15 2021-08-16 09:19:19

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,434
Website

Re: Bullseye Release

^That's something that would have to be tested. And because the broadcom package are downloaders, the machine would need to be plugged in to a cable connection to get the wireless firmware set up. roll

That  catch-22 might be the reason they aren't in the ISOs.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#16 2021-08-16 23:08:59

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
Website

Re: Bullseye Release

^ You can download the b43-fwcutter package and install it via USB during the OS install, but it's confusing how to actually install it, like what's the damn file path. It's /usr/lib/firmware.

I just put the cutter package on another partition, install Debian and choose to configure the network later, then boot into the new OS and copy the driver over from the other partition. It's not pretty, but it works.

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#17 2021-08-23 17:16:19

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,119

Re: Bullseye Release

eight.bit.al wrote:
eight.bit.al wrote:

And the community nonfree spins are too minimal.  I don't want to work that hard.

8bit

I take it back. Just booted the live non-free version. I misremembered or it's improved since I last looked.

8bit

Jesse's review of Debian sayz it all.

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu … 823#debian

" Debian's insistence on not making any choices and forcing the user to do so much manual work up front leaves me feeling like I'm doing work for my operating system rather than it working for me. "

8bit


Any book worth banning is worth reading. - Isaac Asimov

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#18 2021-08-23 18:02:26

rbh
Moderator
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,308

Re: Bullseye Release

eight.bit.al wrote:

Jesse's review of Debian sayz it all.
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu … 823#debian
" Debian's insistence on not making any choices and forcing the user to do so much manual work up front leaves me feeling like I'm doing work for my operating system rather than it working for me. "

That is why some people like to use respins like BL, that has made choises


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

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#19 2021-08-24 00:53:29

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Bullseye Release

rbh wrote:
eight.bit.al wrote:

Jesse's review of Debian sayz it all.
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issu … 823#debian
" Debian's insistence on not making any choices and forcing the user to do so much manual work up front leaves me feeling like I'm doing work for my operating system rather than it working for me. "

That is why some people like to use respins like BL, that has made choises

BL is quite easy to install and set up and the choices made by the BL devs were quite sane in my opinion. The resulting BL install is quite a satisfying experience for those who are not quite that versed in Debian.

Plain Debian is best for those advanced users who can make those choices. Only Arch and Gentoo are harder.


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#20 2021-08-24 01:07:28

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,434
Website

Re: Bullseye Release

Jessie S. said there are two philosopies about configuring software, but I think it's more like a spectrum between configuring everything in advance (and possibly letting users tweak some of it later) and leaving everything for the user to set up. I don't think Debian is completely at the latter extreme (consider all the nifty CLI tools they ship, like a2ensite for Apache, and the Debian alternatives system) but it's close. And of course Gnome or Ubuntu are much further on the other side. Hooray for choice!

Meanwhile there's room for all kinds of compromises in between, and BunsenLabs is one of those (Debian makes a great base for doing this). Sometimes people complain that we've configured too much, sometimes that it's not enough, but we're just one possiblility among many. Whatever works for you...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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#21 2021-08-24 01:25:53

DeepDayze
Like sands through an hourglass...
From: In Linux Land
Registered: 2017-05-28
Posts: 1,392

Re: Bullseye Release

johnraff wrote:

Jessie S. said there are two philosopies about configuring software, but I think it's more like a spectrum between configuring everything in advance (and possibly letting users tweak some of it later) and leaving everything for the user to set up. I don't think Debian is completely at the latter extreme (consider all the nifty CLI tools they ship, like a2ensite for Apache, and the Debian alternatives system) but it's close. And of course Gnome or Ubuntu are much further on the other side. Hooray for choice!

Meanwhile there's room for all kinds of compromises in between, and BunsenLabs is one of those (Debian makes a great base for doing this). Sometimes people complain that we've configured too much, sometimes that it's not enough, but we're just one possiblility among many. Whatever works for you...

Absolutely spot on, as there's endless ways to configure things but BL has things configured well that does not need way too much fiddling other than to get things the way you like them after an initial install.


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#22 2021-08-25 03:05:31

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 79

Re: Bullseye Release

What I do not like is their insistence on making users go down what feels like a poorly marked shady looking alley into the ghetto to get ISOs that work with their hardware.
They have gotten better about the non-free ISOs than they were in the past, but they should accept that many people are repurposing hardware that they bought with Windows on it and will need  the non-free firmware.

It is an operating system, not a religion, but they act as if it offends their sense of purity.

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#23 2021-08-25 03:16:36

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,508
Website

Re: Bullseye Release

^ Well, let's be fair. The history of Linux (Gnu/Linux) has been greatly influenced by Stallman, who is a toenail-eating fanatic (I won't post the link, it's gross). His geek followers have insured that Linux will always essentially be free and not non-free. So it's a workaround. Debian has the non-free repo, Arch has the AUR, Ubuntu and Mint are like "screw it, kitchen sink", etc... Torvalds has not fought this in any real way, has he? He's more practical but he's still "Eff U Nvidia!"

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#24 2021-08-25 04:26:48

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,434
Website

Re: Bullseye Release

^^There are in fact some good reasons why people feel strongly about FOSS principles, and even when obliged to make compromises just to get our hardware working I think it makes most people uncomfortable.

Among the Debian developers there seems to be a spectrum of attitudes towards non-free firmware - I follow the Debian-Installer mailing list and think it's fair to say that some of the lead devs are unhappy with the current situation. In fact they have quite recently been making a lot of effort to make it easier for users to install the firmware they need.

Agreed, the current path to getting iso files with non-free firmware included feels like going down a dark alley. I think some improvement in presentation might be in the pipeline.

There is, though, the legal side, which is just as important. Debian is unique in being a major OS built 100% by volunteers, and not backed by any big company. There is history of people like Microsoft or Adobe trying to sue free software developers for infringing on their copyright. With no big names behind them, Debian need to be very careful that no-one can ever say their OS contains non-free software. That's why so much importance is always attached to licencing and copyright declarations in Debian packages. And it's why they have to be so careful to avoid giving the impression the "firmware" isos are "official" Debian.

It's a tricky compromise.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

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