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#1 2021-06-30 18:57:10

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,295
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@misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

It had to do with Hasan.

My name is Hasan, my dad was Turkish. Sorry I screwed up.

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#2 2021-06-30 21:10:12

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 507

Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

You are easy on the trigger. big_smile
It was about Goethe and his translation of Hasanaginica, an epic poetry, to German language
I guess Goethe learned Serbian.
Goethe named it "Lamentation of the Faithful Wife of Asan Aga".
Hasanaginica means wife of Hasan aga, and aga was a title,
I don't remember if it was civil or military in the Ottoman Empire.
https://wikitranslate.org/wiki/Hasanaginica

I found bits I copied to google translate via Clipit. I can recreate almost the whole post.

This unusual ballad is about an unfortunate woman who was chased away from her house by her husband because she did not visit him in the battle tent, after he was wounded. There is no specific reason why she did not visit him, except for Hasan-aga's opinion that it was out of "shame". Hasanaginica is a noble woman, so it is atypical for the content of a folk song that such a woman is expelled from the court, because in folk literature, a woman is expelled from home only if she is of low birth or unfaithful.

Hasanaginica is none of that. Her only sin is that she did not visit her wounded husband, even though traditional social norms forbid it. She had no right to visit him, but he still objected to it. He accuses her that Hasanaginica did not break the customs and visited him, because it turns out that her love for him is not stronger than her upbringing and the urge to follow the rules. Hasanaginica is completely unenviable position, because she is guilty whatever she does.

Despite the fact that she did nothing wrong, the offended and proud Hasan-aga decides to drive her away and no one has the right to talk, especially not her. This clearly indicates how dominant the patriarchy was at the time the song was written. Only with that in mind can we understand the motive of the song and the tragedy of its main character. After Hasanaginica is expelled, her fate is further decided by her brother.

She herself has no right or voice to decide for herself, one thing she can do is ask her brother to answer her prayers. But he does not care much for her wishes, especially not after the "shame" she inflicted on him, because of course she is considered guilty of being expelled, so it is against her will to marry the caliph of Imotski. Hasanaginica is a good wedding opportunity, because she is rich and noble, and in addition she is a generally kind and beautiful woman.

On the wedding day itself, the tragedy of Hasanaginica deepens and reaches its climax. She begs to be covered as she passes by the castle where her children are, not only that the children don't see her, but that she does not see them either, because her heart will break. Not only did she leave her children, but also the youngest child, still in the cradle, which breaks her heart the most. But the children still notice her and call her home. She can do nothing but give them gifts. She does everything just to make them happy, so she gives them gifts that are at the reach of her hand.

Despite this sacrifice and emotionality, Hasan-aga deals her one last, deadly blow. He summons his children, allegedly to comfort them, calling Hasanaginica a cold stone-hearted woman. That last slander and injustice he inflicted on her was too much for Hasanaginica. When she heard that, she collapsed and died on the spot.

The lesson to be learned is that even small misunderstandings can lead to tragedy.

Last edited by misko_2083 (2021-06-30 21:48:46)


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

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#3 2021-07-01 00:56:54

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,295
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Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

misko_2083 wrote:

The lesson to be learned is that even small misunderstandings can lead to tragedy.

Truth.

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#4 2021-07-01 01:57:16

el_koraco
Member
Registered: 2016-02-08
Posts: 139

Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

That's a good poem. Of course a Turk would try to sabotage it.

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#5 2021-07-01 02:01:50

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,295
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Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

Hey! I gave it my best 40 year old high school German reading! FROM AMERICA!

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 98#p115598

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#6 2021-07-01 07:46:21

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 507

Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

hhh wrote:

Hey! I gave it my best 40 year old high school German reading! FROM AMERICA!

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 98#p115598

Your German isn't bad at all because that's a completely other song you translated. big_smile
A small misunderstanding...

Hasanaginica was made in mid 17th century.
What's tragic is that people still live like in the Ottoman Empire.
When I saw the video Princess Latifa of Dubai published, her fate reminded me of Hasanaginica.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN7OEFyNUkQ


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

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#7 2021-07-02 06:35:15

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: @misko, I deleted a post of yours by mistake.

Thank you misko for sharing this.

misko_2083 wrote:

Her only sin is that she did not visit her wounded husband, even though traditional social norms forbid it. She had no right to visit him, but he still objected to it. He accuses her that Hasanaginica did not break the customs and visited him, because it turns out that her love for him is not stronger than her upbringing and the urge to follow the rules. Hasanaginica is completely unenviable position, because she is guilty whatever she does.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Reminds me of a scene in The Handmaid's Tale (a show that entertains the idea that a return to such misogynystic times is not as out of the question as some might think).

misko_2083 wrote:

What's tragic is that people still live like in the Ottoman Empire.

And not only in far-away Dubai...


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