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#76 2021-01-10 00:23:27

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

Was it a Coup or Cosplay?

(possible paywall)
https://mike-meyer.medium.com/was-it-a- … 043e804f61

TL:DR
Alternative realities built on constantly shifting conspiracy theories with immense, superficial detail and no foundation effectively create confusion. That is their purpose. Those people susceptible to such things are people in need of an absolute belief to define themselves. As they are subjected to wildly inconsistent lies and complete reversals, they learn to jump quickly to the next reality. Denying their own physical experience is hard. But, as we know, most make the change required to maintain their status as a true believer in whatever their currently defined reality group believes.

This is not to ignore those who were, such as the ‘zip tie man,’ in a different physical reality with the intent to take hostages and, it is now thought, killing them. A convergence of different realities among rioters may be seen as the media influencers in cosplay were shouting for Pence to shout at him on video. In contrast, the alternative physical reality rioters intended to take him hostage and present Trump with the body of a traitor.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#77 2021-01-10 00:32:13

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

cloverskull wrote:

I mean, let's face it, these are not smart people.

With poor critical thinking skills.

8bit


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#78 2021-01-10 05:37:52

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,332
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

Excellent Twitter thread on Trump's version of reality (I think this is publicly viewable?):
https://twitter.com/AmandaMarcotte/stat … 4802710530

Magical thinking didn't start with Trump though. NYT in 2004 about how G. W. Bush used his evangelical beliefs to relieve himself of any obligations to check facts:
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/maga … -bush.html


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#79 2021-01-10 14:25:55

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

We love you. You’re very special. Go home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … pitol-mob/

Trump’s long-ago boast that “when you’re a star, they let you do it” has dangled over everything that followed. His presidency has been a harrowing survey of the things that are possible if nobody stops you. The norms he eroded, from his unreleased tax returns to his insults to his firings by tweet, his phone calls, his impeachable offenses — it is amazing, after all, what you can do, if no one bothers to get in your way. And now, here was democracy, standing athwart the will of Trump and his people.

So when Trump urged these disciples to march on Congress, they did.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#80 2021-01-11 06:47:37

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: It's a sad day for America

eight.bit.al wrote:

buzzfeed...
no plan but to pose.

That about sums it up.
Thanks for sharing this; but I must say, while being critical of the social media buzz, it also feeds on it.
I prefer to listen to public broadcasting, actual news.

cloverskull wrote:

those leaders and media outlets that nurtured this movement and pandered to these gullible people need to be held accountable as much, if not more, than those that carried out the act itself.

Exactly.

johnraff wrote:

Excellent Twitter thread on Trump's version of reality (I think this is publicly viewable?):
https://twitter.com/AmandaMarcotte/stat … 4802710530

It is.
I mentioned it before, here's some articles that deal very much with this (his personality, and how it was obvious it would come to this if you knew him):

please listen to this talk given by Tony Schwartz, the author of The Art of the Deal. And this podcast about Donald Trump's psychology (direct link).
It's all predicted there, long before he completely lost it.

---

johnraff wrote:

Magical thinking didn't start with Trump though. NYT in 2004 about how G. W. Bush used his evangelical beliefs to relieve himself of any obligations to check facts:
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/maga … -bush.html

Yes.
And Reagan before that. And probably Nixon before that, but that was before my time.
Back in my time, it was kinda radical left-wing people that criticized them in the same way we all criticize Trump nowadays.
In a way, that's a good thing.
Shit changed after 9/11 though. Separation of powers - effectively gone.


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#81 2021-01-11 07:36:13

cog
Developer
From: The Southwest
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 591
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

You know I was born and come from the conservative background/state/scenario that those insane rioters came from, now I live in arguably the most liberal state (sit down and have a beer with me and I’ll explain), but damn....

That shit is insane.  People must not have any deductive logic at all to act like that.

I’ve been predicting it would happen for weeks.  Unfortunately it happened on my 36th birthday.  What a party pooper.

Anyways, most people on both sides aren’t that batshit crazy.  Don’t lose hope.  We can move forward in a pragmatic way.

Things are gonna get better throughout this year and next year is gonna be like we like it.

Last edited by cog (2021-01-11 07:37:00)


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#82 2021-01-11 14:41:12

sleekmason
zoom
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 629
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

cog wrote:

You know I was born and come from the conservative background/state/scenario that those insane rioters came from, now I live in arguably the most liberal state (sit down and have a beer with me and I’ll explain), but damn....

That shit is insane.  People must not have any deductive logic at all to act like that.

I’ve been predicting it would happen for weeks.  Unfortunately it happened on my 36th birthday.  What a party pooper.

Anyways, most people on both sides aren’t that batshit crazy.  Don’t lose hope.  We can move forward in a pragmatic way.

Things are gonna get better throughout this year and next year is gonna be like we like it.

Here in the Ozarks, the dis/mis information campaign is at full throttle. My wife and I are about as hippy as you get, but with my construction background, we can fit in anywhere if we need to.

The fact that I feel it necessary to think that way speaks volumes. Critical thinking doesn't exist much here.

Most of the people I had considered friends, or had business dealing with, support this madness. We don't speak anymore.

The easiest indicator (sadly) is the lack of masks anywhere but but the big box stores.
Bowling alley? Packed! No masks.  Hardware store? no masks. On and On. Having had something in March (we suspect covid), that almost killed me, this causes a bit of consternation on our parts.

Yeah, fishing would be better! smile  Normally we are running up and down the hollows here about now chasing waterfalls, but it has been bitterly cold, and unless we are moving with a purpose, our heads are too filled with shit to just sit and enjoy it.

Here's to hoping for some serious change in a week or two. We all need it.

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#83 2021-01-11 15:01:26

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

ohnonot wrote:

But I must say, while being critical of the social media buzz, it also feeds on it.
I prefer to listen to public broadcasting, actual news.

There's three sides to a story. "my" side. "your" side and the truth. smile
I try to read many views on a subject and look for the truth somewhere in the middle.

Some political story titles of interest lately:

MAGA Morons Revolt, Step on Their Own Collective Dicks
Army of Ignorance followed world’s greatest conman to their doom.

Ashli Babbitt Was a Traitor Who Died From Terminal Stupidity
QAnon adherent followed Trump cult to her death.

Trump Was Chosen to Damage America, and He Succeeded
Trump gave Putin exactly what he wanted.

Suddenly the GOP Wants Unity?
With the President facing another impeachment, Republican lawmakers are concerned about division.

Claims Antifa Embedded in Capitol Riots Come From a Deeply Unreliable Facial Recognition Company
XRVision also has a track record of spreading conspiracy theories about Hunter Biden.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#84 2021-01-11 17:10:06

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 514

Re: It's a sad day for America

^I see that Americans are now preparing to shoot Trump.
What is the truth now when the media took a role of the judge and the jury? Theory that Trump is Putin's man is as bad as those theories you mentioned.


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#85 2021-01-11 18:44:39

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

^ Seeing Trump's tax returns will go a long way to setting the record straight on his involvement with Putin/Russia.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#86 2021-01-11 19:00:36

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: It's a sad day for America

eight.bit.al wrote:

Trump gave Putin exactly what he wanted.

This.

Thanks cog & sleekmason for these insights. I suppose rural areas are like that around where I live, too, at least to some extent. Always more conservative, less informed. Our populist anti-EU (one could say nationalist) party is currently leading the polls, narrowly. They're one of the now 5 major parties, so none is going to get more than 20-something percent, but still, the trend is there.

I listen to the PBS Frontline Dispatch Podcast (*), the latest episode is Chaos at the Capitol (direct link).
It paints a very dark picture, but it's important to stay informed about these - groups and their actions. Recommended, there's also a transcript available.

(*) aside: It's sad how they need to beg for donations thrice in 25min, and sell their souls to the app stores. It seems that public broadcasting in the US of NA has been un-funded so thoroughly, depending on whatever they can get from foundations, generous donors etc.... no wonder people perceive it as being biased towards the left.
It's no comparison to public broadcasting in, say, the UK, or Germany, or Finland.
It seems there's really no independent media in the USA? Of course independence is always partial, but this is bad.


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#87 2021-01-11 20:24:25

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

ohnonot wrote:

(*) aside: It's sad how they need to beg for donations thrice in 25min, ... It seems there's really no independent media in the USA? Of course independence is always partial, but this is bad.

The slow creeping advance of corporate power. Now days, the newsroom has to make a profit. It's no longer a service with it's associated costs. Very much like how the USPS is spoken of; "loosing" millions a year. Not to mention how the corporatist Republicans in Congress have structured it's finances to fail, so it can be privatized for profit.

Americans need to throw off the 'rugged individualism' mentality of the wild, wild, west and begin to care about society as a whole. And kick corporate greed to the curb. Henry Ford paid his employees twice the going pay rate at the time. He wanted then to have good lives and be able to afford his cars.

Who Stole the American Dream? by Hedrick Smith

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Stole … n_Dream%3F

Smith suggests that The Powell Memorandum, a widely circulated memo written by Lewis F. Powell, Jr. (representing clients such as the Tobacco Institute.) was instrumental in setting this new political direction for US business leaders. The result was the development of "wedge economics" in the 1980s, in which CEOs no longer balanced the needs of all stakeholders—workers, customers, and investors—but rather maximized profits of investors and executives only.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#88 2021-01-11 21:29:39

cog
Developer
From: The Southwest
Registered: 2015-10-27
Posts: 591
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

@sleekmason +1

Last edited by cog (2021-01-11 21:29:58)


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#89 2021-01-12 02:23:18

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,332
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

One man who's done more than many to undermine democracy via his grip on media, Rupert Murdoch:
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/14/chan … ws-empire/


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#90 2021-01-12 03:01:25

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,720

Re: It's a sad day for America

^ Yup. Rupert Murdoch is the Most Dangerous Man in the World.


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#91 2021-01-12 03:18:41

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

^ When We Talk About Fox News, We Need to Talk About the Murdoch Family Too

https://theintercept.com/2020/10/24/fox … ily-media/

The Murdochs own Fox News but rarely get the scrutiny they deserve for bankrolling racism and hatred.

"Rupert’s youngest son James, who loyally served for years as a senior executive and board member of the family’s global businesses and who lost out to his elder brother Lachlan in a succession battle, quietly left his remaining board seat this year and voiced some gentle regrets about the Frankenstein created by his family. "

Frankenstein being the right wing media empire which has warped so many minds.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#92 2021-01-12 15:39:14

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

Speaking of Frankenstein...

ransack.th.png

8bit


If art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.

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#93 2021-01-12 15:43:08

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,720

Re: It's a sad day for America

^ That is very clever. And very apt.


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#94 2021-01-12 19:30:56

rbh
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From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,244

Re: It's a sad day for America

eight.bit.al wrote:

In colour, titled "Blood on their hands"... https://www.nj.com/opinion/2021/01/a-mo … neman.html


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#95 2021-01-12 19:37:24

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

^ Nice. Thx.

8bit

Edit: Interesting news outlet, https://www.nj.com/

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-01-12 19:49:50)


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#96 2021-01-13 17:30:40

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,568

Re: It's a sad day for America

I felt strongly about my last post and also put it up on spam.com/
Here on BLF we're a fairly homogenous bunch - we can have a thread about Trump that doesn't go awry because regardless of other political views, we more or less agree that he's not good for the USA or the world.
In a way I like the challenge of trying to debunk & convince Trumpists, even if it sometimes hurts me more than I care to show.

But now, something completely unprecedented (for me) happened: one of them became my work colleague. We talked yesterday, he's fairly outspoken so I learned that

  • he thinks Covid19 isn't claiming more lives than the flu

  • Trump didn't start a war, that's a Good Thing

  • he entertains the notion that something is fishy, because Trump got so many votes, how come he still lost the election esp. since Biden is so boring and uninspiring?

I should've told him that they didn't necessarily vote for Biden, but against Trump, but I was totally stunned.
I was living in a happy bubble - until now.
I had to go home and watch my favorite TV show for 4h just to be able to get some sleep.
He also has a facemask phobia (so he's the only adult not wearing one) and proudly told me that his whole family didn't get tested before they came here from Germany 2 weeks ago.
We're a work team of only 4 to 5 adults, so this is very difficult for me.
And we are so-called frontline workers. I'm not too happy about it as it is (no home office for us), but this just makes it so much worse.

Thinking about it more scrupulously, I don't think I could trust anyone right now who so carelessly moves to a different country.
I told him in no uncertain terms that to me it is clear and proven that Covid19 is a global epidemic, dangerous and sufficiently deadly to take it very seriously, so I'm guessing relations will cool now.
This is bad.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-07-04 09:26:08)


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#97 2021-01-13 22:00:57

phuturism
Member
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2016-07-15
Posts: 187

Re: It's a sad day for America

Plenty of pro-Trump Qanon anti-vaxxer anti mask types here in Australia too.   I've just come back from Indonesia - I had to get a PCR test before departure, and I'm now in quarantine for 14 days in a city hotel.  I have no contact with anyone, except vritually.   Food is brought to my room and left outside.  I must put leftovers, plates and utensils in double layer plastic bags and leave it outside my room.   I get PCR tested today, my third day here.   I think I get tested again in 10 days.   If I try to leave, or refuse testing, I can be fined AUD20000 (about EU10K) and face imprisonment.

This will cost me AUD3000.   

Australia is really serious about trying to keep this thing out.   We've had about 1000 deaths total since the pandemic began.   Mindblowing that the US is peaking at 4000 deaths per day right now, and people still think its a hoax.

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#98 2021-01-13 23:37:30

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,102

Re: It's a sad day for America

Speaking for the US of NA; for many, many years the right wing media has been using (white) grievance to get it's followers to vote against their economic interests; abortion, immigrants, LGBTQ, etc. Faux News, for example, has a red banner flashing ALERT every few minutes to keep it's viewers riled up, along with a Pavlovian bell ringing before certain grievance news segments.

Years and years of stimulating fear and anger against the Other. Anger motivates voters to come out to the poles. This carefully nurtured angst is fertile ground for all manor of conspiracy theories. Trump, the master manipulator, played this pent up frustration like a pied piper. These people are trapped in an alternate reality created by right wing media lies. This is to keep the ever shrinking group of old, white men in power against the inevitable browning of America.

Sadly, these people are mad at the wrong thing. They should be mad at the 1%/corporations who sent their middle class jobs overseas. Who keeps their wages low. Who stole trillions (with a T) in wealth from the housing market. Privatized gains, socialized losses.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-01-13 23:45:06)


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#99 2021-01-14 04:07:24

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,320
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

eight.bit.al wrote:

Sadly, these people are mad at the wrong thing. They should be mad at the 1%/corporations who sent their middle class jobs overseas. Who keeps their wages low. Who stole trillions (with a T) in wealth from the housing market. Privatized gains, socialized losses.

Richard Wolff, economist...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YzfwYjAKTs

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#100 2021-01-14 04:11:28

vasa1
Member
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 204

Re: It's a sad day for America

ohnonot wrote:

I felt strongly about my last post and also put it up on LQ.
Here on BLF we're a fairly homogenous bunch - we can have a thread about Trump that doesn't go awry because regardless of other political views, we more or less agree that he's not good for the USA or the world...

Yes, the homogeneity here is evident and eloquent.

By the way, take a gander at the top two bestsellers on Amazon currently: one is 1984 and the other is about what Rep. Nadler described as a myth. So there's still "work" to do to completely homogenize the country. I'm sure there's an electronic trail available so that the people (?) purchasing such items can be identified and re-educated. On the other hand, they could claim they bought the items to burn as in the days of yore.

Long live the homogeneity.


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