You are not logged in.

#51 2021-01-07 06:03:27

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,168
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

Just throwing this in:

Person On Twitter wrote:

2016: it’s only four years, how bad can it get

2021: are the armed insurrectionists storming the Capitol aware that there is a plague ravaging the land


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#52 2021-01-07 06:18:46

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,032
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

Hmm, that's just Monty Python, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g

Pro tip, any political discussion can reference this clip. Feche la vache.

Offline

#53 2021-01-07 06:28:30

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,032
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxagJ8fpsv8

Offline

#54 2021-01-07 07:01:03

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,534

Re: It's a sad day for America

"Trump's goons" - it really has come to this.

rbh wrote:

A glimpse of light can be seen. The democrates has now majority in the senate sand can hopefully act and for a society not so hard divided.

Really?
Yesterday it wasn't clear yet (Georgia).
So the democrats have a majority in the senate now?
For once I can say: the people have spoken. Don't forget that social goes with democratic.
Trump contributed a lot to open their eyes; the pandemic helped to paint a clearer picture.
I truly hope the Democrats do not get drunk on that power. Fat chance, the USA being what it is... but the alternative - Republicans blocking any attempt at making policy for four years, only to be able to claim that the Democrats failed, come next election - is worse.
This country needs more political parties. 2 just isn't enough.

I think I already shared it elsewhere but please listen to this talk given by Tony Schwartz, the author of The Art of the Deal. And this podcast about Donald Trump's psychology (direct link).
It's all predicted there, long before he completely lost it.

BTW, I really hope we can put this clown behind us soon.


Give to COVAX! Here or here. (explanation)

Offline

#55 2021-01-07 10:35:39

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,084

Re: It's a sad day for America

ohnonot wrote:

Yesterday it wasn't clear yet (Georgia).
So the democrats have a majority in the senate now?

It is 50-50, but the democrats have the chairman... (casting vote)

For once I can say: the people have spoken. Don't forget that social goes with democratic.

But for Trump, social and socialist is an restriction on the american way of life. General health insurance is state dictatorship, and so on.

Trump contributed a lot to open their eyes; the pandemic helped to paint a clearer picture.

Yes, enough to stop his election, but many has swallowed Trumps lies and cannot see how destructive he is. It will be a hard work and long work, to mend the cracks in America.

This country needs more political parties. 2 just isn't enough.

But, America has more than two parties. the problem is that the votingsystem makes it very hard to grow. America and other countrys should apply a votings system that sthrenthens democarcy, b accounting also for the second and third vote. Like The approval vote, The Center for ElectionScience https://electionscience.org/about/, advocate.

I think I already shared it elsewhere but please listen to

Those were new for me, thanks.

BTW, I really hope we can put this clown behind us soon.

But, Trump is no usual clown, he is a very dangerous one.

Last edited by rbh (2021-01-07 10:36:36)


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

Offline

#56 2021-01-07 11:06:10

rbh
Member
From: Sweden/Vasterbotten/Rusfors
Registered: 2016-08-11
Posts: 1,084

Re: It's a sad day for America

rbh wrote:

America and other countrys should apply a votings system that sthrenthens democarcy, b accounting also for the second and third vote. Like The approval vote, The Center for ElectionScience https://electionscience.org/about/,


I personaly prefer Modified Borda Count. It can be used both to elect a single winner or a ranked list.

The de Borda Institute, is quite lonely in promoting Borda Count.


// Regards rbh

Please read before requesting help: Guide to getting help,
Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop and other help topics under "Help Resources" on the BunsenLabs menu

Offline

#57 2021-01-07 16:00:53

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,660

Re: It's a sad day for America

Quote from a senior Conservative politician today big_smile

Trump is a cult (and yes I spell-checked that).


Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

Offline

#58 2021-01-07 16:45:38

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,249

Re: It's a sad day for America

To be fair, the German Bundestag (federal parliament) is looking into building a moat around it. They did everything to erode trust into politics and their actions (plus did everything to decrease public security and increase risk of danger). Looking from politics as a "voter", every day is another day in theatre, be it the US, EU or DE. No wonder that it's hard to take politics, including elections, seriously anymore. "Just a big show", quite a few people evidently are thinking -- the result is a few capitol visits. Additionally, all this rioting was basically "no real problem" -- as portrayed by media -- earlier this year when supposedly "anti-Trumpian" protestors went looting in towns all over the US -- all caused by factors external to rioters, so no accountability on their side necessary. It would only be fair to pardon "today"'s riots in the same way. Talking about US politics in a derisive way as an European is like sitting in the glass house and throwing stones at the walls.


Nassdachs

Offline

#59 2021-01-07 16:46:38

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,717

Re: It's a sad day for America

rbh wrote:

But, Trump is no usual clown, he is a very dangerous one.

SO TRUE!!!


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#60 2021-01-07 17:46:52

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,660

Re: It's a sad day for America

Sector11 wrote:
rbh wrote:

But, Trump is no usual clown, he is a very dangerous one.

SO TRUE!!!

MV5BZDVkZmI0YzAtNzdjYi00ZjhhLWE1ODEtMWMzMWMzNDA0NmQ4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzYzODM3Mzg@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg


Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

Offline

#61 2021-01-08 06:31:04

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,534

Re: It's a sad day for America

twoion wrote:

To be fair, the German ... Talking about US politics in a derisive way as an European is like sitting in the glass house and throwing stones at the walls.

I don't see it that way.
I spent a lot of time researching US politics in the past few years (the one positive thing that came out of Trump's presidency, at least for me personally).
First of all, I'm not derisive about US politics or even US Americans in general. Critical, yes. But I am dersisive against Trump, you bet.

Things might not be perfect in the EU either, tendencies might even be the same as over there, but it's nothing compared to what's going on in the US of NA. Nothing.
Separation of powers, for one? Gone since 9/11. And I wonder how effective it ever was before that.
Systemic racism? I know that many countries have a problem with discrimination against immigrants etc., but nothing, I repeat, nothing like what's been going on against blacks in the US of NA ever after abolishing slavery.
Social security?..... Etc.

I saw Where to Invade Next recently, it portrays those differences quite well.
've never been a fan of Michael Moore.
He clearly wants to paint a certain picture here, choosing his colors very carefully - mostly vivid and cheery on one side, mostly bleak on the other.
But even though he's cherry-picking, everything he says about Europe is true, there's no exaggeration or distortion of facts, and to my knowledge the same applies - if inverted - for how he portrays the US of NA.
This film says something I have been saying for a long time: US Americans, have a look around. It doesn't have to be like that (the American Way). These are all capitalist countries. There really is a better way.
...and of course it was a German who pragmatically summed it up: "It's just cheaper in the long run."


Give to COVAX! Here or here. (explanation)

Offline

#62 2021-01-08 06:34:30

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,534

Re: It's a sad day for America

I didn't get it until later that day.
Clearly this sort of rioting is treated differently than BLM, all the way down to the president's speech. He sounded like he was soothing an upset child, talking to a friend.

Biden made a good speech about it; he was milking it, clearly, but still.

And the US of NA are aware of critical voices being raised all over the globe.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-01-08 06:35:26)


Give to COVAX! Here or here. (explanation)

Offline

#63 2021-01-08 11:23:44

glittersloth
buena piñata
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,364

Re: It's a sad day for America

Offline

#64 2021-01-08 13:47:56

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 473

Re: It's a sad day for America

rbh wrote:
rbh wrote:

America and other countrys should apply a votings system that sthrenthens democarcy, b accounting also for the second and third vote. Like The approval vote, The Center for ElectionScience https://electionscience.org/about/,


I personaly prefer Modified Borda Count. It can be used both to elect a single winner or a ranked list.

The de Borda Institute, is quite lonely in promoting Borda Count.

Nooo, the simpler the better. Leaves less room for manipulation. It would take 50 or more times more time to count.
In the last elections I was given a list of 20 candidates and most of them I never heard about before.

I don't follow what's going on in the elections in other continents. Whoever wins in US can't change the path. The corporations now decide about everything. What you hear, what you see, what will you eat, what you are allowed to think...


This content is censored by the German government.

Offline

#65 2021-01-08 14:25:18

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,016

Re: It's a sad day for America

misko_2083 wrote:

The corporations now decide about everything. What you hear, what you see, what will you eat, what you are allowed to think...

What he said. Past time for a revolution against the power of corporations.

8bit


If art is how we decorate space; music is how we decorate time.

Offline

#66 2021-01-08 20:21:33

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,534

Re: It's a sad day for America

misko_2083 wrote:

Nooo, the simpler the better. Leaves less room for manipulation.

Smells like populism.

What "manipulation" are you refering to? Law should be upheld, yes, of course. But simple rules can be manipulated just as well as complicated rules.

It's not that simple, unfortunately. Pun intended. Parlamentaristic voting is a complex thing. Adjusting it to be as fair as possible should be done with ultimate prejudice, preferably decided by an independent court, possibly the highest. Something like Constitutional Court. Separation of Powers, you know?

Obviously: if political parties could change or bend voting legislation, that would be very very bad.

@rbh: thanks for pointing out the finer, erm, points. Many people have put a lot of thought into this over the past 2 centuries or so. We should listen to them, weigh it against experience, and adjust if appropriate. The current exeprience in the US of NA just screams for adjustment methinks.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-01-09 19:35:12)


Give to COVAX! Here or here. (explanation)

Offline

#67 2021-01-08 20:58:21

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 473

Re: It's a sad day for America

^it has a major flaw. Your second choice can end up defeating your first choice.
Above that points decide the winner not direct votes which is not democratic.
The more complex the system is the more room for manipulation. If you can manipulate a simple voting system you will only have more options in a complex one.


This content is censored by the German government.

Offline

#68 2021-01-08 21:10:46

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,032
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

twoion wrote:

... Additionally, all this rioting was basically "no real problem" -- as portrayed by media -- earlier this year when supposedly "anti-Trumpian" protesters went looting in towns all over the US -- all caused by factors external to rioters, so no accountability on their side necessary. It would only be fair to pardon "today"'s riots in the same way. Talking about US politics in a derisive way as an European is like sitting in the glass house and throwing stones at the walls.

Several arrests have been made, the guy with his feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk was arrested in Arizona today. The guy stealing her podium has been identified as well (Florida, of course). The guy with the bison hat with raccoon-tail ear flaps (it's not a fucking Viking helmet! The Vikings didn't even wear horned helmets, that's from fucking Wagner as popularized by Bugs Bunny!) is a well-know Q-Anon idiot, I don't know if they've arrested him yet.

And the spectacle of police allowing this to happen, when they tear-gassed Occupy Wall Street college students and BLM protests, has been seen by everyone. Even the mainstream media is covering the double standard here (the support of US police forces for Trump has been widely reported and is well known), and some DC police officials have already resigned.

We realize here that this was an actual coup attempt. Insurrection, sedition, treason. It's been yet another wake up call (school shootings, opioid and meth crisis, caged children, etc...) for our stupefied nation.

Can you believe it? Our VP idiot Mike Pence is practically a hero because he managed to bypass Trump and bring in the National Guard.

In a nutshell, full on late-stage capitalism. There's hardly an institution left in this country that isn't corrupt in some way, and most of them are blatantly corrupt (*cough* Congress).

We're just relieved to get normal Democrat corruption for a few years instead of Trump's LSD-altered reality shit show.

Well, slightly more than half of us. The others are insane, literally insane. Over 70 million paranoid, racist, absolute nutcases. My mom is one.

Last edited by hhh (2021-01-08 22:43:01)

Offline

#69 2021-01-08 21:20:00

sleekmason
zoom
Registered: 2018-05-22
Posts: 584

Re: It's a sad day for America

hhh wrote:

We're just relieved to get normal Democrat corruption for a few years instead of Trump's LSD-altered reality shit show.

Ain't that the truth.

Just to walk through the day without worry will be bliss.  Can't even get out in the woods without my head being filled with his bile.

Here's to the future. May we have one.

Last edited by sleekmason (2021-01-08 21:20:51)

Offline

#70 2021-01-08 21:48:48

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,032
Website

Re: It's a sad day for America

sleekmason wrote:

Here's to the future. May we have one.

Well, there's this... Trump ended up, in the Georgia runoffs, (by a very slim margin, Stacy Abrams gets huge credit) flipping the Senate out of spite, the deciding vote is from a Democrat now and McConnell is not the asshole-in-charge anymore. This is huge. Trump lost the Election, also huge (it was fucking close). Republicans gained in the House, but they are still a minority. Biden can pass legislation, he has the House and Senate. He's going to have to spend 2 or 3 months undoing Trump's legislation before any progress can be made.

The liberal Democrats, led by Sanders and AOC, finally have the ear of the American public. I hope Ralph Nader is sleeping well tonight.

A big if here... If the Democratic party can see that the American people are done with catering to Wall Street, the Military and the huge Corporations, and can see across their gated communities and realize we need structural change and a more equitable distribution of wealth in this country, as well as world wide, there's a chance for a future.

Like I said, a big if. Don't hold your breath. Biden has a lot of conflicts of interest. And did I mention corruption?

Last edited by hhh (2021-01-08 22:28:18)

Offline

#71 2021-01-09 00:39:14

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,016

Re: It's a sad day for America

Something I haven't heard talked about is the p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ near certainty of foreign agents, (spies) infiltrating these hate groups and white supremacy groups. Or just walking in with them. And then having hours of access to computers, etc. Planting bugs and all manor of spycraft. They had congress up and running just a few hours after clearing out the building; enough time to do intensive sweeps?

8bit


If art is how we decorate space; music is how we decorate time.

Offline

#72 2021-01-09 22:18:04

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,016

Re: It's a sad day for America

The Pro-Trump Mob Was Doing It For The ’Gram
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/el … surrection

TL:DR
But it was also quickly apparent that this was a very dumb coup. A coup with no plot, no end to achieve, no plan but to pose. Thousands invaded the highest centers of power, and the first thing they did was take selfies and videos. They were making content as spoils to take back to the digital empires where they dwell, where that content is currency.

If you exist in the real world, Trump and his allies have lost 62 election fights in court, and lost every opportunity to reverse the results of the election. The election of Joe Biden as the next president has been a settled matter for weeks. It’s comically absurd that anyone would think otherwise. But the real world is only a part of the story.

For Trump supporters who occupy those extreme-right universes, anyone who believes that Trump lost the election is the delusional one. What’s more: they experience this narrative entirely online, safe from facts, where stars of this alternate universe emerge to cement it for them. And there is a reward to be found in that stardom: After all, why would anyone don a costume like the QAnon Shaman, if not as a play for the cameras?

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-01-09 22:24:49)


If art is how we decorate space; music is how we decorate time.

Offline

#73 2021-01-10 00:13:49

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,660

Re: It's a sad day for America

How does a GOP congressman dispute the result, when he was elected using the very same "fraudulent" ballot paper? Cognitive dissonance somewhere.


Be Excellent to Each Other...
The Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop » Here
FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

Offline

#74 2021-01-10 00:18:52

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 1,016

Re: It's a sad day for America

What was she expecting, refreshments?

https://twitter.com/HamZaddy_/status/13 … 8145180678

8bit


If art is how we decorate space; music is how we decorate time.

Offline

#75 2021-01-10 00:21:50

cloverskull
Member
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 343

Re: It's a sad day for America

@eight.bit.al - the coup attempt was perpetrated by a mob that behaved like a dog chasing a car. The dog doesn't know what to do if he actually catches the car. We got to see that play out in real time.

That doesn't excuse anything. Stupidity doesn't exonerate someone of insurrection. At a minimum, this supports the notion that those leaders and media outlets that nurtured this movement and pandered to these gullible people need to be held accountable as much, if not more, than those that carried out the act itself.

I mean, let's face it, these are not smart people. They storm a federal capitol building to overturn an election certified by individual states while carrying confederate flags, which allegedly represents support for sovereign states' rights. Or carrying a blue lives matter flag while actively attacking cops, which does nothing if not reveal that supporting police was all a ruse to simply hide racism.

I digress. smile

The Boogaloo boys have planned armed invasions of all US State Capitols on the 17th. The reason Parler was suddenly shunned by Apple and Google (and potentially Amazon) is because of pressure from the FBI, since it's the platform these violent events are being organized on. Fun-fact - Parler was founded by the same dudes that founded Cambridge Analytica.

It's always darkest before the dawn. Stay safe, everyone.

Last edited by cloverskull (2021-01-10 00:22:32)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB