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#1 2020-02-25 15:01:55

clusterF
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 539

covid-19 virus

Anyone a bit alarmed at this. Ive taken precautions and decided not to be sociable for the next 12 months.

I was supposed to go to a dinner in china town with chinese cuisine for a get together with work colleagues over the weekend but decided not to because of the origin of the virus being chinese. I dont know, im not a fan of chinese to begin with and ive seen some horrific things coming out of china in regards to "street meat" that would make a vegan out of you. Ive even heard that it could be racist to fear chinese food and the chinese people, how would that be so? I believe fearing a virus that originated in china from the chinese is warranted, nothing racist about that in my opinion.

Drastic or warranted?

-mod edit by hhh- For a short list of resources on Covid-19 FAQs and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), see this post later in this thread...

https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic … 658#p99658

Please post any other useful information you find (not Facebook information, please!)

Last edited by hhh (2020-03-28 23:24:34)

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#2 2020-02-25 15:46:39

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,825

Re: covid-19 virus

I believe fearing a virus that originated in china from the chinese is warranted, nothing racist about that in my opinion.

It is racist, which is why WHO specifically decided not to name new viruses after their origin. There were many targetted individuals from the Middle East because of the virus named MERS, for example.

BBC News

The WHO criticised the name Mers (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) in 2015.

"We've seen certain disease names provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals," it said in a statement.

As a result, it issued guidelines. According to these, the name for the new coronavirus should not include:

    Geographical locations
    People's names
    The name of an animal or a kind of food
    References to a particular culture or industry

So where a disease originated is immaterial to your own health. You are more likely to catch it from a returning traveller from your own nation, whatever their ethnic origin, so targetting people on cultural grounds is entirely unwarranted. IMHO.


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#3 2020-02-25 15:51:12

Sun For Miles
Member
Registered: 2017-04-12
Posts: 185

Re: covid-19 virus

clusterF wrote:

Anyone a bit alarmed at this. Ive taken precautions and decided not to be sociable for the next 12 months.

I was supposed to go to a dinner in china town with chinese cuisine for a get together with work colleagues over the weekend but decided not to because of the origin of the virus being chinese. I dont know, im not a fan of chinese to begin with and ive seen some horrific things coming out of china in regards to "street meat" that would make a vegan out of you. Ive even heard that it could be racist to fear chinese food and the chinese people, how would that be so? I believe fearing a virus that originated in china from the chinese is warranted, nothing racist about that in my opinion.

Drastic or warranted?

Imho you are being too drastic for a couple of reasons.

Virus itself may be originated in China, same as SARS was back in 2002/2003 because of their general poor hygiene and tradition of living with animals. However, I assume you live in either Europe or Americas where that is irrelevant info and Chinese restaurants and people don't keep animals in such an unsanitary conditions. You don't need an excuse such as fear of viral infection to tell people you don't like Chinese cuisine, so your train of thought does sound a bit racist. :)

Fear of infection is a legit concern, but we are a bit over the point when it was only seen in China. WHO still hasn't declared state of pandemic afaik, but more and more cases are spreading across the western world and vaccine is year and a half away. Taking all of that into account, this could be the main viral infection accross the globe this year and yourself not going to Chinese restoraunts is not gonna be an effective measure to prevent yourself from getting sick - because this virus has really long incubation time (up to 28 days) and current tests are unreliable.


Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?

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#4 2020-02-25 15:58:12

clusterF
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 539

Re: covid-19 virus

@ damo ^ So the covid 19 virus is a disease that originated in china? Just like mers that originated in the middle east. How does this make the viruses racist in origin?

Last edited by clusterF (2020-02-25 16:02:19)

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#5 2020-02-25 16:10:32

clusterF
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 539

Re: covid-19 virus

Sun For Miles wrote:
clusterF wrote:

Anyone a bit alarmed at this. Ive taken precautions and decided not to be sociable for the next 12 months.

I was supposed to go to a dinner in china town with chinese cuisine for a get together with work colleagues over the weekend but decided not to because of the origin of the virus being chinese. I dont know, im not a fan of chinese to begin with and ive seen some horrific things coming out of china in regards to "street meat" that would make a vegan out of you. Ive even heard that it could be racist to fear chinese food and the chinese people, how would that be so? I believe fearing a virus that originated in china from the chinese is warranted, nothing racist about that in my opinion.

Drastic or warranted?

Imho you are being too drastic for a couple of reasons.

Virus itself may be originated in China, same as SARS was back in 2002/2003 because of their general poor hygiene and tradition of living with animals. However, I assume you live in either Europe or Americas where that is irrelevant info and Chinese restaurants and people don't keep animals in such an unsanitary conditions. You don't need an excuse such as fear of viral infection to tell people you don't like Chinese cuisine, so your train of thought does sound a bit racist. smile

Fear of infection is a legit concern, but we are a bit over the point when it was only seen in China. WHO still hasn't declared state of pandemic afaik, but more and more cases are spreading across the western world and vaccine is year and a half away. Taking all of that into account, this could be the main viral infection accross the globe this year and yourself not going to Chinese restoraunts is not gonna be an effective measure to prevent yourself from getting sick - because this virus has really long incubation time (up to 28 days) and current tests are unreliable.

It originated in china and they were unable to contain it and china has over 1 billion in the population in country + abroad and it seems going forward that due to the globalist nature of planet earth, when china sneezes we might all get sick.

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#6 2020-02-25 16:15:15

glittersloth
...straight talkin'
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,023

Re: covid-19 virus

WRT food;
It's worth noting that the virus originated* from the sale of illegal live wildlife. Whether that species of wildlife was meant for a dinner plate or as an exotic pet remains uncertain. The virus does NOT spread via cooked food. As @damo stated, you're more likely to contract it from the people you're having dinner with (whatever their ethnicity), not the dinner itself. The virus hit Italy hard recently. Don't tell me you're going to avoid pasta next?

*let's just ignore all the tabloid talk about it being a chemical weapon that escaped a lab or whatever.

WRT people;
Seriously, if the idea of discriminating against an entire ethnicity just because the virus originated from a country their ancestors came from even crossed your mind, just do society a favor and lock yourself at home. I'm not religious in the least, but Jesus wept mate, I figured people on this forum would be better than this. Discriminate against the whole of humanity as much as you want, but never segregate your discrimination. Makes you sound like the lowest caste of human - the politician.

Fwiw, I'm personally calling it the Wu Tang virus, mainly because I feel they're the most overrated hip-hop group in history.

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#7 2020-02-25 16:20:49

clusterF
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 539

Re: covid-19 virus

In world war 2 we separated japanese and german people from our populations into concentration camps due to a perceived threat. The perceived threat now has originated out of china in the form of a virus that is killing numerous chinese people daily. I dont think it is racist to be wary of the chinese way of life, for all intensive purposes i think they need to change there ways in regards to hygiene and their eating habits.

Last edited by clusterF (2020-02-25 16:22:29)

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#8 2020-02-25 16:27:41

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 335

Re: covid-19 virus

clusterF wrote:

Anyone a bit alarmed at this. Ive taken precautions and decided not to be sociable for the next 12 months.

I was supposed to go to a dinner in china town with chinese cuisine for a get together with work colleagues over the weekend but decided not to because of the origin of the virus being chinese. I dont know, im not a fan of chinese to begin with and ive seen some horrific things coming out of china in regards to "street meat" that would make a vegan out of you. Ive even heard that it could be racist to fear chinese food and the chinese people, how would that be so? I believe fearing a virus that originated in china from the chinese is warranted, nothing racist about that in my opinion.

Drastic or warranted?

Too melodramatic.
You still have 98% chances to survive if you catch it.
There is nothing we can do to stop it and it only a matter of time when it will arrive.
So we took a different approach.

There is this event on the social networks:
Свечани Дочек Корона Вируса На Тргу Републике
Gala Reception of the Corona Virus on the Republic Square
https://i.imgur.com/J7Czmdb.png
After a few shots of rakija with the Chinese friends that corona virus will be so drunk it won't work. smile


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

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#9 2020-02-25 16:38:24

glittersloth
...straight talkin'
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,023

Re: covid-19 virus

^ Only if it's actual redneck rakija made in basements. The stuff bought in stores is too tame.

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#10 2020-02-25 18:02:04

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,677

Re: covid-19 virus

clusterF wrote:

In world war 2 we separated japanese and german people from our populations into concentration camps due to a perceived threat. The perceived threat now has originated out of china in the form of a virus that is killing numerous chinese people daily. I dont think it is racist to be wary of the chinese way of life, for all intensive purposes i think they need to change there ways in regards to hygiene and their eating habits.

First of all, China should change regarding their reporting habits. At this point (looking at the Italy situation) it is pretty much 100% guaranteed that the Chinese have been underreporting infections and deaths for more than a month; presumably to save face and money. They are a totalitarian state and botched the one thing they should be better at than anybody else, iron-fisted population control (ok, they tried very hard -- too late) and on-point actions unencumbered by the political ass-covering that republics are so prone too.

At the end, European nations, esp. Germany, reacted in much the same way: too little reaction to late, fear of losing more money than necessary and underresponding, just that Germany is even more incompetent at handling this threat to millions of its old-aged population. Until the day before yesterday all they did was handing out leaflets at the airport; everybody here is dangerously unprepared for situations like this. Communication by the government has been a catastrophe also.  Testing for CoV2019 js explicitly limited to people with suspected direct exposure, no prophylactic large-scale testing (no capacity, and also it'd pretty much show that the virus is already everywhere).

Italians are the only ones with a good response on the continent so far: Proper reporting, prophylactic testing of large population samples, and quarantine measures.

That being said, I personally pretty much expect to contract CoV2019 if I do not already have it. I'm under 30 and healthy so in all likelihood it shouldn't be a serious issue, but I pretty much fear for my parents (aged 70+). It should also be pointed out that if this virus goes pandemic and rolls through the population, there are no ICU beds anywhere on this planet to accommodate all those who will be in serious condition. Only the ones with $$$ and/or power will be safe in "any case".

What's especially difficult is that this is happening at a time when everybody would be sick to any some degree anyway. How do I know that my sore throat and cough right now isn't CoV2019? I don't and I can't, because they refuse to test people who just think they have it.

It's the Spanish Flu of the 2000s, or more the Chinese Flu now. Very punctual 102 years later.


Wahllos schlägt das Schicksal zu / heute ich und morgen du.

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#11 2020-02-25 18:18:47

glittersloth
...straight talkin'
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 1,023

Re: covid-19 virus

twoion wrote:

At the end, European nations, esp. Germany, reacted in much the same way: too little reaction to late, fear of losing more money than necessary and underresponding, just that Germany is even more incompetent at handling this threat to millions of its old-aged population. Until the day before yesterday all they did was handing out leaflets at the airport; everybody here is dangerously unprepared for situations like this. Communication by the government has been a catastrophe also.  Testing for CoV2019 js explicitly limited to people with suspected direct exposure, no prophylactic large-scale testing (no capacity, and also it'd pretty much show that the virus is already everywhere).

To be fair, that's how testing first started out here in Singapore (and most of Southeast Asia), and it's even more embarrassing for authorities here considering the experienced gained from the last SARS outbreak. Only those suspected of direct exposure were tested and quarantined as precaution, with no contact tracing until a couple of weeks after. A bit complex in our case considering the island often acts as a business "hub" of sorts for regional meetings and such (so far the biggest culprits for local infection were traced to a hotel meeting involving Chinese companies from Wuhan, and a Church gathering), but still woeful levels of preparedness in many regards. Not as big a botch job as that cruise ship in Japan though. What were they thinking? They're supposed to hold an Olympics this year too.

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#12 2020-02-25 18:27:35

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 335

Re: covid-19 virus

Glittersloth Only the good stuff. Stored in the wooden barrels that give the color.
Of course it is not made in the basements unless you have no choice.
You sit outside, control the fire and monitor the process.
From time to time you take a sip to test it and enjoy the view of your preety neighbour..
The more you sip the prettier she appears. smile


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

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#13 2020-02-25 18:34:42

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 414
Website

Re: covid-19 virus

twoion wrote:

It's the Spanish Flu of the 2000s, or more the Chinese Flu now. Very punctual 102 years later.

Trivia: The Spanish Flu got known by this name because Spain was not a fighting nation in WWI so its press was not censored and wrote about the epidemic hushed down by pretty much every one else. The flu did not come from Spain.

The swine flu was labeled thus by some journalist. It had no connection to pigs. Yet at least one country had a lot of pigs slaughtered because of the name. Journalists have lot to answer for, not least fear mongering.

Btw, Covid-19 is not the Spanish Flu of the 2000s. Not yet at least. 50--100 million dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

BBC's The Inquiry is pretty much always very good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csythc

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#14 2020-02-25 19:29:45

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 335

Re: covid-19 virus

Martin wrote:
twoion wrote:

It's the Spanish Flu of the 2000s, or more the Chinese Flu now. Very punctual 102 years later.

Trivia: The Spanish Flu got known by this name because Spain was not a fighting nation in WWI so its press was not censored and wrote about the epidemic hushed down by pretty much every one else. The flu did not come from Spain.

The swine flu was labeled thus by some journalist. It had no connection to pigs. Yet at least one country had a lot of pigs slaughtered because of the name. Journalists have lot to answer for, not least fear mongering.

Btw, Covid-19 is not the Spanish Flu of the 2000s. Not yet at least. 50--100 million dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

BBC's The Inquiry is pretty much always very good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csythc

/Martin

Here there are some people having the swine flu.
It's been treated as the regular flu.
H1-something who is going to remember the scientific designation, swine flu is much easier.
In the media they tell us that they used some cameras on the airports to detect the people with the fever.
So that it appears like they are doing something.
Like the detection of the heat signature will stop the people carrying the virus.
Sometimes there are no symptoms at all.
All they are saying is that the virus is coming, it can't be stopped and that there is no place for panic. xD
Few days ago they remembered about the old hospital for infective and tropical diseases, which was in terrible condition.
And finaly invested in the repairs and new equipment. Too late or not we'll see.
If the outbreak started somewhere else it wouldn't be much different than in China.
So I don't see why should we fear the Chinese people.
Danger from the virus is real but the fear of Chinese people is imaginary.
As Vsause said the fear can be learned. You can learn to be afraid from a purple square in the right environment.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9Vmwsg8Eabo/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEZCPYBEIoBSFXyq4qpAwsIARUAAIhCGAFwAQ==&rs=AOn4CLCmcl2fnvDnBt8Sg3nCJCTtiC52yw


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

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#15 2020-02-25 19:49:10

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,677

Re: covid-19 virus

At least I'd like to have people panic a little bit more. Today my gold ETCs were falling in price. What are they thinking? They should buy more gold lest the global economy collapses.


Wahllos schlägt das Schicksal zu / heute ich und morgen du.

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#16 2020-02-25 19:55:50

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 760

Re: covid-19 virus

I live in capital of Croatia (Zagreb), and today we have an outbreak of the covid-19 virus, first confirmed patient ... it has been just a few days after there has been confirmed cases in Italy ... misko_2083, are you ready? big_smile big_smile

Should I panic? Should I accept the fate? (I don't believe in fate; I believe in probability.) Personally: I blame news media. Almost any report mentions only number of confirmed patient and number of dead ... they don't put those figures in perspective: for example, how many people ordinarily get 'ordinary' flu? How many people ordinarily die from 'ordinary' flu? What type of people ordinarily die from 'ordinary' flu?

I have seen only a handful of news mentioning those, and I concluded:
- number of ordinary flu patients is at least an order of magnitude larger compared to covid-19 virus patient
- number of people dead from covid-19 virus is at least an order of magnitude smaller than number of people dead from 'ordinary' flu
- people with already severe diseases and/or deteriorated immunity are those who die from all types of flu (mostly, i.e. large majority); i.e. for reasonably fit people, both ordinary flu and covid-19 virus is non-fatal

I feel reasonable fit, I'm not too old, I can drink quite a few beers in one evening ... therefore, from my point of view, I will continue my life as before. I may get covid-19 virus, I may not get covid-19 virus, I may die from covid-19 virus ... who cares? Except my closest family (mostly, because I provide fair amount of monthly income)? No one really ... tongue tongue


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#17 2020-02-25 20:11:49

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,825

Re: covid-19 virus

iMBeCil wrote:

... how many people ordinarily get 'ordinary' flu?... What type of people ordinarily die from 'ordinary' flu?
...

A medical authority , interviewed today on the BBC, says the death rate from 'flu is about 0.1%. ATM it is looking like the covid-19 rate is about 1%. In  both cases the numbers are tiny compared to the general population.

Most deaths are in the over-70 age group.


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#18 2020-02-25 20:21:50

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 760

Re: covid-19 virus

^Thanks on info, it is good to have correct numbers put in the perspective.

damo wrote:

Most deaths are in the over-70 age group.

Phew ... 16 years more living for me  big_smile  big_smile

Last edited by iMBeCil (2020-02-25 20:24:12)


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#19 2020-02-25 20:30:01

Sun For Miles
Member
Registered: 2017-04-12
Posts: 185

Re: covid-19 virus

It is probably not wise to analyze statistics at the moment because input data is probably incorrect, but most of the reports say that the mortality rate of the new virus is anywhere between 0.9 and 3%, while Iran is reporting the 20% figure. All these numbers are skewed toward more serious cases of illness and could be wrong due to not having an accurate number of infected people with mild or no symptoms.


Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?

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#20 2020-02-25 20:50:14

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,825

Re: covid-19 virus

Sun For Miles wrote:

It is probably not wise to analyze statistics at the moment because input data is probably incorrect,....

That's why the medic said "ATM it is looking like the covid-19 rate is about 1%." - big caveats, depending on the hard figures coming through. It is likely  worse than 'flu, but a lot less significant than the media hype might make people think.


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#21 2020-02-25 21:05:29

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 335

Re: covid-19 virus

iMBeCil wrote:

I live in capital of Croatia (Zagreb), and today we have an outbreak of the covid-19 virus, first confirmed patient ... it has been just a few days after there has been confirmed cases in Italy ... misko_2083, are you ready? big_smile big_smile

Should I panic? Should I accept the fate? (I don't believe in fate; I believe in probability.) Personally: I blame news media. Almost any report mentions only number of confirmed patient and number of dead ... they don't put those figures in perspective: for example, how many people ordinarily get 'ordinary' flu? How many people ordinarily die from 'ordinary' flu? What type of people ordinarily die from 'ordinary' flu?

I have seen only a handful of news mentioning those, and I concluded:
- number of ordinary flu patients is at least an order of magnitude larger compared to covid-19 virus patient
- number of people dead from covid-19 virus is at least an order of magnitude smaller than number of people dead from 'ordinary' flu
- people with already severe diseases and/or deteriorated immunity are those who die from all types of flu (mostly, i.e. large majority); i.e. for reasonably fit people, both ordinary flu and covid-19 virus is non-fatal

I feel reasonable fit, I'm not too old, I can drink quite a few beers in one evening ... therefore, from my point of view, I will continue my life as before. I may get covid-19 virus, I may not get covid-19 virus, I may die from covid-19 virus ... who cares? Except my closest family (mostly, because I provide fair amount of monthly income)? No one really ... tongue tongue

IMBecil Rakija is ready. big_smile
Finally someone that makes sense.
You have my respect.
We'll all die someday.
The only choice we have is to live like a mouse or like a lion.

Sun For Miles wrote:

It is probably not wise to analyze statistics at the moment because input data is probably incorrect, but most of the reports say that the mortality rate of the new virus is anywhere between 0.9 and 3%, while Iran is reporting the 20% figure. All these numbers are skewed toward more serious cases of illness and could be wrong due to not having an accurate number of infected people with mild or no symptoms.

True, and it depends from a lot of factors.
Overuse of antibiotics in some countries can weaken the immune system.
Some already went through the infection without noticing.
Some cases are counted as a common flu.

damo wrote:
Sun For Miles wrote:

It is probably not wise to analyze statistics at the moment because input data is probably incorrect,....

That's why the medic said "ATM it is looking like the covid-19 rate is about 1%." - big caveats, depending on the hard figures coming through. It is likely  worse than 'flu, but a lot less significant than the media hype might make people think.

Fear can be used as a powerful tool.


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

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#22 2020-02-25 21:18:11

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,677

Re: covid-19 virus

misko_2083 wrote:

Overuse of antibiotics in some countries can weaken the immune system.

Well then I'm safe wink I haven't taken antibiotica for over 20 years (which is 2/3rds of my life) (my mother had the right idea about using those unless really needed -- I'm still alive and very rarely seriously ill; never could understand all those people popping pills as soon as their nose starts running).


Wahllos schlägt das Schicksal zu / heute ich und morgen du.

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#23 2020-02-25 21:22:14

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 760

Re: covid-19 virus

misko_2083 wrote:

IMBecil Rakija is ready. big_smile
Finally someone that makes sense.
You have my respect.
We'll all die someday.
The only choice we have is to live like a mouse or like a lion.

Hahahaha, padni mi na grudi big_smile ... only Balkan people would understand: rakija (Serbia, Croatia), the universal medecine big_smile big_smile

Although, sometimes I prefer 'pelinkovac':

Pelinkovac is a bitter liqueur based on wormwood (Croatian, Serbian and Slovenian: pelen or pelin), popular in Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as in Slovenia, where it is known as pelinkovec or pelinovec. The alcohol content is 28–35% by volume. It has a very bitter taste, resembling that of Jägermeister.

And, in my opinion, it is much better than Jägermeister! IMHO, a single strong spirit better than Pelinkovac is Underberg:

Underberg is a digestif bitter produced at Rheinberg in Germany by Underberg AG, made from aromatic herbs from 43 countries, which undergo inspections and are based on a secret Underberg family recipe whose members are personally responsible for the production of the drink.

Too bad (or luckily?) it is extremely expensive ... but this one cures all stomach problems in seconds  smile


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#24 2020-02-25 22:08:57

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,046

Re: covid-19 virus

I'm 70 - on the line!  If I go, I go.

The way global warming is coming on, I'm not sure I want to be here 10-20-30 years from now anyway.

A bug is just one way in an infinite number of ways of leaving this world and it has been since the beginning of time.

So what else is new?


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.

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#25 2020-02-25 22:15:45

Sun For Miles
Member
Registered: 2017-04-12
Posts: 185

Re: covid-19 virus

@pelin and rakija buddies
Serbian institute for public health finally issued a public statement.


Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?

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