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#26 2019-02-18 20:24:17

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 197

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

hhh wrote:

Meh. Like I said, no-one on the team crafted the original article. I'll go ahead and create a page, though, and we can see what Wikipedia does with it.

Oh I missed that bit, I naturally thought it was created by someone with inside knowledge of it


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#27 2019-02-18 20:27:56

lamarca
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From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 405
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I didn't know the word "bona fide". I liked it.


THX1138 wrote:

....talk to wikipedia and find out what can be done to make the article bona fide

An important question: who created the entry and later abandoned?
reason why Bunsenlabs entry was deleted, which was an extreme decision.

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#28 2019-02-18 20:46:54

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,312
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Very bare bones, but hopefully they'll accept the sources...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BunsenLabs_Linux

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#29 2019-02-18 21:02:12

lamarca
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From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 405
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

@hhh - The fortune favor the bold

https://scrot.moe/image/aDfIv

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#30 2019-02-18 21:07:21

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,312
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Is that so? smile Light and dark, it's both a Western and Eastern philosophy...

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

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#31 2019-02-18 21:20:20

hhh
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Ha! I formatted the BL link in the #! page correctly, and it gives my scrot as a preview on mouse-hover. Finger's crossed the pages remain accepted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBan … BunsenLabs

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#32 2019-02-18 21:22:24

hhh
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

The BL page was reformatted a bit by Wikipedia, looks like it's good-to-go for now.

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#33 2019-02-18 21:28:19

lamarca
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From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 405
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

hhh wrote:

Is that so?

Exactly.

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#34 2019-02-19 04:22:59

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,721
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Good job @hhh cool

I took the liberty of making a couple of small edits.

I'm also not so keen on that screenshot to be honest - a bit messy... How about putting up the standard Helium desktop for now? That's clean and beautiful, and Lithium hasn't been released yet, and won't be for some months.

EDIT
Uhh... don't know what this means (not my doing):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BunsenLabs_Linux

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
    BunsenLabs Lithium concept theme.png

Some licensing issue?
Ah, @hhh see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hhhorb
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Comm … s#Software

Last edited by johnraff (2019-02-19 04:54:45)


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#35 2019-02-19 04:24:51

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,721
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

And of course, anyone can edit a WP page, so people who think something should be added - just go ahead and add it. Of course writing on the "talk" page is an option if you're unsure.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#36 2019-02-19 04:33:24

lamarca
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From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 405
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

What about a Portuguese entry? French, Spanish ....

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#37 2019-02-19 04:57:01

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,721
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Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

^You don't have to ask, of course! Wikis are publicly editable.

But if you put a link here, maybe people editing the English page will get some ideas.


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#38 2019-02-19 05:45:19

lamarca
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From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 405
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

:-) Sure. Will be my pleasure.

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#39 2019-02-19 09:02:34

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 197

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

johnraff wrote:

Good job @hhh cool

I took the liberty of making a couple of small edits.

I'm also not so keen on that screenshot to be honest - a bit messy... How about putting up the standard Helium desktop for now? That's clean and beautiful, and Lithium hasn't been released yet, and won't be for some months.

EDIT
Uhh... don't know what this means (not my doing):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BunsenLabs_Linux

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
    BunsenLabs Lithium concept theme.png

Some licensing issue?
Ah, @hhh see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hhhorb
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Comm … s#Software

No it appears the image has not been "categorised" I have been looking at what that means and it simply means you add

 category: <some category>

somewhere in the page. I cant see where or how though. still researching


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#40 2019-02-19 22:26:47

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,906
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

hhh wrote:

Very bare bones, but hopefully they'll accept the sources...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BunsenLabs_Linux

thank you for taking the effort.
and wow, it seems to be damned complicated to do it "properly" in a way that it won't be deleted again... is is even possible to talk to people there, or are these things just happening?
kindof kafkaesque...

also, clicking the link, i'm now seeing the old crunchbang redirect again. sad

why?

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#41 2019-02-19 23:20:51

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 197

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

ohnonot wrote:

also, clicking the link, i'm now seeing the old crunchbang redirect again. sad

why?

One of the wikipedia crawlers put a note on the page saying it hadn't been categorised properly and it recommended a swift deletion. I expect somebody deleted it after seeing what the bot had put there.
It seems a bit unfair that they even use an automated deletion process and
was probably deleted by someone who understands very little about much

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-19 23:21:48)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#42 2019-02-20 02:30:50

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,721
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I thought the "swift deletion" notice referred to the screenshot, not the page.

The reversion note for the page itself says

Latest revision as of 13:47, 19 February 2019 (edit) (undo) (thank)
Onel5969 (talk | contribs)
(Reverted to revision 730127395 by Kumiponi (talk): Restore redirect - no indication of notability (TW))
Tags: Undo, New redirect

I don't know what we're supposed to do now, if new pages can be removed before they've even been got into shape. Of course the WP is eager to avoid any kind of self-promotion or spamming. Would fixing the "inline external links" issue help? (WP policy on external links)

Of course I - or anyone - could go in and undo the last reversion, but we don't want to get into a pointless editing war.

Last edited by johnraff (2019-02-20 02:34:27)


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#43 2019-02-20 03:04:13

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,312
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I'm thinking the article would have stuck if I hadn't tried to add a screenshot, the rules for scrots are strict and somewhat obfuscated.

Seriously, though, whatever. We have a solid web-presence.

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#44 2019-02-20 09:01:49

Jimbo_G
Member
From: France
Registered: 2017-05-12
Posts: 128

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Wow, I'm learning lots about Wikipedia!

The common theme in the notability guidelines is that there must be verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability.

No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity, nor is the topic unsuitable for any other reason. Sources of evidence include recognized peer-reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally.

In addition to the external websites that have already been mentioned, wasn't BL included on a Linux magazine CD not too long ago?

Edit: I found it, issue 241 of Linux Format, who are lucky enough to have a WP page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Format

Last edited by Jimbo_G (2019-02-20 09:11:23)

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#45 2019-02-20 20:49:35

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,906
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

The common theme in the notability guidelines is that there must be verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability.

No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity, nor is the topic unsuitable for any other reason. Sources of evidence include recognized peer-reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally.

well we have a whole thread dedicated to bunsenlabs media presence, not to mention distrowatch.
i guess somebody would have to write an article that brings these things together in a WP-acceptable way, then try again.(*)
i'm sure bunsenlabs is "notable" in this sense, or at least i don't see how it would be less notable than crunchbang, or archbang, or many others that do have a WP entry, and had it for years.

(*) sorry i didn't see what was written before it got deleted

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#46 2019-02-20 21:18:01

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 197

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

OK I just got this email address

info-en-q@wikimedia.org

from this page
where it says

Wikipedia does not have a centralised author or content reviewer, and our content is maintained by volunteer editors. The people who have edited or who monitor your article are probably the best first point of contact. ...

...you can reach other experienced volunteers by emailing info-en-q@wikimedia.org . Please include the address or title of your article and specific information on the problems you have with it.

I would try that first. Perhaps bunsenlabs officials with the authority to speak on behalf of the distro could do a collaborative effort to draft an email that details the problem, and invite the wikipedia moderators to help with formulating an acceptable article.

(later)Just found this
The criteria for speedy deletion

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-20 21:34:41)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#47 2019-02-21 02:04:25

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,312
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Gaa, screw that jumping-through-hoops protocol stress. Forget it, a page will get built eventually.

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#48 2019-02-21 03:52:38

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,721
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Trying again.

Looking at the user Onel5969 who reverted the BL page to a redirect (ie deleted it) he seems to be a real person, not a bot, though I've no idea what kind of automation lets him do hundreds of edits per day.  yikes 

Anyway his talk page helpfully links to some support for new editors and at the bottom there's a discussion of a recent page he deleted where the concept of a "draft" came up. Useful.

Anyway, I went through the official "declaration of conflict of interest" process (I'm a BL dev) and created a new draft here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:BunsenLabs_Linux
There's also an associated "talk" page if anyone wants to discuss specific WP issues there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_tal … Labs_Linux

@hhh please forgive changes I made to your original text, but please feel free to edit it again as you see fit. Anyone else too. (Edits by people who are not BL devs are preferred in fact.) As long as it's a draft it will be safe, no-one will delete it. Let's take our time to get everything just right and conforming to all the WP standards, then we can submit it for review.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

Last edited by johnraff (2019-02-21 03:58:11)


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#49 2019-02-21 11:47:16

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 197

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

johnraff wrote:

Trying again.

Looking at the user Onel5969 who reverted the BL page to a redirect (ie deleted it) he seems to be a real person, not a bot, though I've no idea what kind of automation lets him do hundreds of edits per day.  yikes 

Anyway his talk page helpfully links to some support for new editors and at the bottom there's a discussion of a recent page he deleted where the concept of a "draft" came up. Useful.

Anyway, I went through the official "declaration of conflict of interest" process (I'm a BL dev) and created a new draft here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:BunsenLabs_Linux
There's also an associated "talk" page if anyone wants to discuss specific WP issues there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_tal … Labs_Linux

@hhh please forgive changes I made to your original text, but please feel free to edit it again as you see fit. Anyone else too. (Edits by people who are not BL devs are preferred in fact.) As long as it's a draft it will be safe, no-one will delete it. Let's take our time to get everything just right and conforming to all the WP standards, then we can submit it for review.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

Excellent work.

One thing I found out is that Linux Format magazine have featured Bunsenlabs 3 times
bunsen-lf.th.png

Also if you look at distro's such as Kali, they mention their developers and the software included and how the distribution is used, release cycles etc. I know theres a special interest in Kali but the same is also done for Sabayon and a few others

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-21 12:18:26)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#50 2019-02-22 04:06:17

hhh
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Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 8,312
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

@johnraff, submit it!

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