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#1 2019-02-12 06:27:26

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,450
Website

BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Tell you what, though, on the general topic of keeping people informed about BunsenLabs, our Wikipedia page currently just redirects to CrunchBang. If people felt like adding some information there...


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#2 2019-02-12 07:31:18

earlybird
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 698
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

johnraff wrote:

Tell you what, though, on the general topic of keeping people informed about BunsenLabs, our Wikipedia page currently just redirects to CrunchBang. If people felt like adding some information there...

What. Didn't it use to have its own page? With release info and such. And did they just erase the complete editing history of the original BunsenLabs page? At least I cannot find it and I'm pretty sure there was a separate page. Well here's their rationale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia … BunsenLabs. And they did NOT delete the page in 2016, must have been late 2018 or 2019. Armchair editors.

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#3 2019-02-12 10:12:54

lamarca
Member
From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 391
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

earlybird wrote:

And did they just erase the complete editing history of the original BunsenLabs page?

Bunsenlabs page always redirected me to Crunchbang. After three or four attempts I gave up.
There was really a Bunsenlabs entry on Wiki, which was deleted after their discussion. I am surprised.


"A man is a wolf to another man"

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#4 2019-02-12 11:52:56

earlybird
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-12-16
Posts: 698
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

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#5 2019-02-12 13:44:14

S7.L
Member
Registered: 2018-09-16
Posts: 338

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Good ole wikipedia hey! Not sure how they class crunchbang as distinct from bunsenlabs, i mean both were derived from debian. Maybe they just dont consider it neccessary for a continuation of crunchbang derived from debian to have its own page? Which seems strange due to crunchbang being discontinued.

Last edited by S7.L (2019-02-12 13:47:01)

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#6 2019-02-12 14:24:54

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 205

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

^This is how wikipedia works. There is a lot of politics involved in the groups that manage wikipedia. Sometimes "2+2=5" when it is more convenient than the correct but politically unacceptable truth.

There was a fellow complaining about certain incorrect information regarding the plumbing on wikipedia. He tried to fix it but the group managing the wiki page always changed it back.
Although the information is incorrect it stayed there. The group has an agreement about what is acceptable truth and they do not accept any third party oppinions. They defend it like a some dogma and don't accept other people in those groups.

The same can be said about history. There is no truth in history, only perspectives over which some groups of people have agreed.

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#7 2019-02-12 14:39:57

S7.L
Member
Registered: 2018-09-16
Posts: 338

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

^ well put misko, especially that last sentence.

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#8 2019-02-12 16:19:56

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 4,966

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

misko_2083 wrote:

^This is how wikipedia works. There is a lot of politics involved in the groups that manage wikipedia. Sometimes "2+2=5" when it is more convenient than the correct but politically unacceptable truth.
...

The same can be said about history. There is no truth in history, only perspectives over which some groups of people have agreed.

What Is History?

wiki wrote:

This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The specific problem is: Relies far too heavily on one primary source—the book that is the subject of the article. Needs comprehensively gutting

monkey


Be Excellent to Each Other...

FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

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#9 2019-02-12 18:44:11

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 205

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

damo wrote:

Relies far too heavily on one primary source—the book that is the subject of the article.

Yes, it's an euphemism of the sentence "It needs cenzorship."

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#10 2019-02-12 18:55:03

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 4,966

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

misko_2083 wrote:
damo wrote:

Relies far too heavily on one primary source—the book that is the subject of the article.

Yes, it's an euphemism of the sentence "It needs cenzorship."

Not quite the way I read it: any article anywhere relying on a single source is less credible/reliable than one with multiple sources.


Be Excellent to Each Other...

FORUM RULES and posting guidelines «» Help page for forum post formatting
Artwork on DeviantArt  «» BunsenLabs on DeviantArt

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#11 2019-02-13 00:45:19

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 7,907
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

earlybird wrote:

What. Didn't it use to have its own page? With release info and such. And did they just erase the complete editing history of the original BunsenLabs page? At least I cannot find it and I'm pretty sure there was a separate page. Well here's their rationale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia … BunsenLabs. And they did NOT delete the page in 2016, must have been late 2018 or 2019. Armchair editors.

The "citations needed" flags were all over the entry from the get-go. I'm not sure who created the page... it wasn't a BL Team member, or anyone I'd recognize from the forums. We're on DistroWatch and are a Debian derivative, a Wikipedia entry is unnecessary IMO.

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#12 2019-02-13 04:56:57

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,450
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I guess if someone felt like adding some more info - and "citations" - to the BunsenLabs subsection of the Crunchbang page, it wouldn't do any harm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBan … BunsenLabs


John
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( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#13 2019-02-13 10:11:48

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,773
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

what we really need (instead of moaning about $FAVOURITE_CONSPIRACY_THEORY) is someone who knows how these things work to write a "proper" wikipedia article; I guess they'll accept it then.
THX1138?

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#14 2019-02-13 16:43:16

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Me? uh, me?
I've only edited punctuation and grammar before now on articles I've seen by others. I've never tried writing a whole page and I have never got involved in their discussions.
I sort of know how wikipedia works but wow. If you guys want to write the page I dont mind
having a go at adding in sources etc and maintaining the page etc- however I'm not certain what they count as a valid source

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-13 16:44:53)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#15 2019-02-13 16:52:15

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I just read this bit

non-notable Linux distribution. It is so easy to create a Linux distribution, especially when you base it off an existing one like they have done

Someone should edit the deletion note and put in brackets underneath in the same style as "citation needed" - "karate chop to the windpipe needed"


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#16 2019-02-13 18:58:47

lamarca
Member
From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 391
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

johnraff wrote:

I guess if someone felt like adding some more info ..... to the BunsenLabs subsection of the Crunchbang page...

There was a Bunsenlabs entry on Wiki with no connection to Crunchbang. Someone created the Bunsenlabs article and left it behind.

Here is their discussion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia … BunsenLabs

Wikipedia is full of regulation. My suggestion is to ask them what to do in this case.


"A man is a wolf to another man"

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#17 2019-02-13 20:01:17

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,773
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

lamarca wrote:

Wikipedia is full of regulation. My suggestion is to ask them what to do in this case.

might be the best idea.
THX1138, i didn't want to scare you, but since you said you contribute there, or at least have an account...

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#18 2019-02-13 20:16:53

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

ohnonot wrote:
lamarca wrote:

Wikipedia is full of regulation. My suggestion is to ask them what to do in this case.

might be the best idea.
THX1138, i didn't want to scare you, but since you said you contribute there, or at least have an account...

No I have merely edited anonymously. I dont have an account there
I think I mentioned it in the discussion about brexit

Anyone can edit anonymously at wikipedia. You can even post a whole article anonymously, I believe

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-13 20:17:54)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#19 2019-02-13 20:23:54

lamarca
Member
From: rio de janeiro
Registered: 2015-11-27
Posts: 391
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

ohnonot wrote:

might be the best idea.

Bunsenlabs must be on Wiki.
However, it's not exactly like NewsLetter. Bunsenlans in different languages will be great.


"A man is a wolf to another man"

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#20 2019-02-14 05:19:31

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 5,450
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

For reference, ArchLabs have a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArchLabs
which says they were inspired by Bunsenlabs.

That page was also considered for deletion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia … n/ArchLabs
but the decision was made to keep it because of three outside references:

Articles in Linux Insider, It's FOSS, and StationX are significant coverage in indepedent, reliable sources and so passes WP:GNG.

(All of those articles also mention BL of course.)

We ought to be able to at least equal that in terms of reviews (15 pages), Debian Derivative Census and Distrowatch?


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
In case you forget, the rules.

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#21 2019-02-14 11:46:59

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

johnraff wrote:

For reference, ArchLabs have a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArchLabs
which says they were inspired by Bunsenlabs.

That page was also considered for deletion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia … n/ArchLabs
but the decision was made to keep it because of three outside references:

Articles in Linux Insider, It's FOSS, and StationX are significant coverage in indepedent, reliable sources and so passes WP:GNG.

(All of those articles also mention BL of course.)

We ought to be able to at least equal that in terms of reviews (15 pages), Debian Derivative Census and Distrowatch?

That's more like it. Form a strategy and then write the page

Also I thought that it would be good if the page mentioned derivatives and spin-offs of bunsenlabs such as https://archlabslinux.com/
and the bunsenlabs twitter page

Also explain how bunsenlabs is debian based, but different to debian.
Maybe explain who the developers are a bit, their experience outside of Bunsenlabs and the history of what brought them into Bunsenlabs. I think the major criticism wikipedia had of the distro is that they didnt see how it differed from Debian, other than a few logos. I think there needs to be some talk of software significantly altered by Bunsenlabs or written specifically for it.

Another criticism of the page was that all the links were self-referential so there were few sources outside those created by Bunsenlabs themselves

Last edited by THX1138 (2019-02-14 11:48:37)


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#22 2019-02-14 13:30:08

Jimbo_G
Member
From: France
Registered: 2017-05-12
Posts: 124

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

I had a quick look at the Wikipedia entries of the top 100 distributions on Distrowatch.

82 have Wikipedia pages (in English), and 15 of those 82 have some problems such as not enough citations, neutrality disputed, etc.

So I think it is entirely reasonable that BL should have its own page, and the comment mentioned earlier:

It is so easy to create a Linux distribution, especially when you base it off an existing one like they have done

also applies to the majority of the top 100 distributions.

@THX1138 based on a quick look through all these pages, it is not that usual to explain much about who the developers are. It seems to be enough to have some external citations, a summary of development history and an explanation of what makes it an original distro.

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#23 2019-02-14 18:42:45

brontosaurusrex
Middle Office
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 1,767

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

So 'we' are not even 'mostly harmless'?

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#24 2019-02-18 20:05:49

THX1138
Member
Registered: 2019-01-14
Posts: 191

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

What is happening about the wikipedia page? I think someone with the authority to speak about Bunsenlabs(with very detailed knowledge of bunsen and its history) and the authority to speak on behalf of the developers and community should, like lamarca said, talk to wikipedia and find out what can be done to make the article bona fide


The telephone is an antiquity - you never know who is calling, there is no image, it is an outmoded product which constantly disrupts work (Ralf Hutter (Kraftwerk)) ps: my wife knows how much I dislike being disrupted at Work - Ralf Hutter hit the nail on the head there

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#25 2019-02-18 20:21:11

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 7,907
Website

Re: BunsenLabs Wikipedia entry deleted

Meh. Like I said, no-one on the team crafted the original article. I'll go ahead and create a page, though, and we can see what Wikipedia does with it.

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