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#1 2017-05-22 11:05:06

o9000
tint2 developer
From: Network Neighborhood
Registered: 2015-10-24
Posts: 398
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Ubuntu forcing systemd

At work we use Ubuntu 16.04 (latest LTS). You might know I'm not a fan of systemd, so the first thing I do whenever I install Ubuntu is to replace it with the old upstart, since Ubuntu ships both; then I uninstall systemd completely.

Recently I've had a lot of trouble with this approach. Certain security updates keep pulling systemd; I haven't figured out which ones and why. I want to have the updates, so the best option I've found is to create an empty systemd package with a very large version, which would prevent the installation of the original one.

I followed roughly these instructions: https://eric.lubow.org/2010/creating-du … on-debian/

Upstart has its own problems. It's unmaintained, and clearly Ubuntu is making intrusive changes even if it's an LTS version; I've had a few systems randomly not booting with upstart.

Another recent update broke the init=/path/to/init kernel command line option. The system just hangs at boot when that's present. Any alternative init (non-systemd, non-upstart) must be placed in /sbin/init. This is a problem because I've been testing runit, while running upstart from the boot command line when I broke something, but now that's not possible anymore, I must choose between runit and upstart.

I'm getting really tired of this. I think sooner rather than later it's going to be less time consuming to move all my work to one of the BSDs and ditch Linux. Might try devuan as a last hope. But I feel we're pissing against the wind.

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#2 2017-05-22 17:03:55

Sector11
The Tpyo Knig Mod
From: 77345 ¡#
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 5,460

Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

o9000 wrote:

I think sooner rather than later it's going to be less time consuming to move all my work to one of the BSDs and ditch Linux.

So sad ...

Talk to Head_on_a_Stick, he's a BSD user.


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#3 2017-05-22 18:48:27

Nili
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From: $HOME/♫♪
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 904
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Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

As an Devuan user, I think this OS will make you feel better like you haven't lost anything.
BSD would be an ideal solution if you take a step towards it.

Yes, this way of acceleration on LTS i find unacceptable aswell. The changes you described, seems more suitable on a testing rather than LTS. Maybe start thinking of backups? If you let me to suggest, i think give a try Devuan before making a second choice.

Regards!


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#4 2017-05-22 18:50:55

PackRat
jgmenu user Numero Uno
Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 1,066

Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

I think sooner rather than later it's going to be less time consuming to move all my work to one of the BSDs and ditch Linux.

or go with Slackware, Gentoo, or Void Linux.


You must unlearn what you have learned.
    -- yoda

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#5 2017-05-22 19:30:31

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

Or Alpine Linux smile

I do very much like OpenBSD, their rigorous approach to code quality is very reassuring and the system itself is about as simple as it is possible to be.

FreeBSD 11.0 is a very solid release with peerless networking performance; HardenedBSD takes this base and adds a raft of exploit prevention techniques and other security fixes.

I am actually starting my BunsenLabs Diproton system with runit-init and it works very well (albeit with the systemd-shim and systemd-logind running) but I must admit that I prefer systemd on that platform thanks to all of the lovely bells & whistles...


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#6 2017-05-22 20:31:38

o9000
tint2 developer
From: Network Neighborhood
Registered: 2015-10-24
Posts: 398
Website

Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

I've actually moved my projects to Linux from FreeBSD 6 years ago, due to driver issues. Things went great until the upgrade to 16.04, after which random stuff started to break. Removing systemd magically solved all problems.

What I like about upstart or sysv-init is that it *initializes* the system, but then lets me take the wheel and do whatever I want with it. Systemd (or one of it's scripts, modules, whatever they call them) still reacts to events afterwards and gets in my way. Removing it and switching to upstart instantly solved all problems.

For now I'm rolling back to 14.04 which is still supported and has an up-to-date kernel thanks to Ubuntu's hardware support updates.

For later, we'll see. Runit may work well (I already use it for service management), but the initramfs still remains problematic (as in the above issue with init=...). I'm worried that all non-systemd init systems will be treated as second-class citizens and initramfs or other parts of the system might not interact well with them.

It's not all roses on the BSD side either, usually due to driver problems. But they're more focused on the server side, which is good because that's what I care about, while Linux (distros) seems to become more desktop oriented lately. One of the best things about FreeBSD is that most of the devs are using Macs as their desktops. I used to think the opposite.

Voidlinux looks promising, but a rolling release distro is not appropriate for my work. I'm trying to do as much development and as little maintenance as possible. Alpine seems a cool project, but different enough from debian/ubuntu that the switch to BSD might make sense.

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#7 2017-05-22 20:51:25

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Ubuntu forcing systemd

o9000 wrote:

Systemd (or one of it's scripts, modules, whatever they call them) still reacts to events afterwards and gets in my way.

It is possible to mask pretty much any systemd .service, .socket or .target, I find that it does what it is told in that respect.

o9000 wrote:

It's not all roses on the BSD side either, usually due to driver problems.

FreeBSD 11.0 is much improved in respect of hardware support, they have synced their DRM tree with Linux now, it may be worth another go.

They even have Haswell support now:

https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics

EDIT: but not the Linux 3.10 TearFree option that I need  mad

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2017-05-22 20:52:38)


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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