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#1 2016-11-17 21:20:28

ohnonot
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Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

there was a thread like this on #! forums.
of course i got inspired by it.

my interest was in those that

    typically run in a standalone session (not as part of a desktop environment, like e.g. mutter for gnome)
    are capable of both floating and tiling, a.k.a. "dynamic"
    are somewhat maintained or at least usable, not too obscure

I took screenshots of those I was able to at least open a terminal with.
They provide only a very quick overview: what you would be presented with after succesfully starting them for the first time.

here's the link.

that in itself was a little boring, but i am planning to zoom in on a few window managers.

Update Apr 10th 2017:
There are now four articles:
http://dt.iki.fi/i3-windowmanager
http://dt.iki.fi/dwm-windowmanager
http://dt.iki.fi/twm-windowmanager
http://dt.iki.fi/fluxbox-windowmanager
stay tuned!

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-04-10 14:36:15)

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#2 2016-11-17 21:30:08

twoion
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Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,149

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Perhaps just move directly to sway / i3 on wayland.

I would recommend to upgrade the graphics stack to backports or to upgrade to stretch though before running wayland.

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#3 2016-11-17 21:35:51

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Fascinating stuff, thanks!

ohnonot wrote:

there was a thread like this on #! forums.

http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=18273

smile


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#4 2016-11-17 21:36:44

ohnonot
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

^^ interesting idea.
i3 is quite high on my list of keepers, but i never even considered using wayland.
on archlinux sway is in [community], easily installed, pulls in wayland dependencies, no package conflicts it seems. will try.

Last edited by ohnonot (2016-11-17 21:37:14)

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#5 2016-11-18 00:25:09

twoion
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Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,149

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

^^ interesting idea.
i3 is quite high on my list of keepers, but i never even considered using wayland.
on archlinux sway is in [community], easily installed, pulls in wayland dependencies, no package conflicts it seems. will try.

I am not using it because keyboard layout management on wayland sucks but I keep it around "just in case" X stops workind big_smile Just run 'sway' from a TTY and there you go!

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#6 2016-11-18 12:31:15

ratcheer
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From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 193

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

twm really is fun. It gives me nostalgia for 1996.

Tim

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#7 2016-11-18 21:54:00

lowrider
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From: Germany
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 232

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Fascinating stuff, thanks!

ohnonot wrote:

there was a thread like this on #! forums.

http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=18273

smile

What a trip down memory lane  glasses

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#8 2016-11-19 22:20:35

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Musca anyone? Some years ago a played around with several tiling windows managers. I am intreagued/tempted by tiling but find that since most program developers have the floating windows manager paradigm in mind there are user interface conflicts like pop-ups flickering in dwm and surprising handling of programs opening multiple windows. I found Musca to have very few problems like this while still providing a good tiling experience.

At the end of the day I found I am pretty happy with how Openbox was set up in #! and now in Bunsen Labs so I have not switched to tiling apart from running pywo to 'augment' Openbox. When working with Blender I have to switch pywo off because of keyboard short-cut conflicts but otherwise pywo is on all the time.

As a side-note sort of I have to mention that I am moving to Linux at work. It is Ubuntu based -- Ubuntu with a corporate twist to it. So I have started to use Unity. It takes some getting used to but now that the initial confusion is starting to go away I can't say it is all bad. The eye-candy is over the top (guess why I use Bunsen Labs at home...) but functionality is mostly OK. Early days still...

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#9 2016-11-20 09:16:27

ohnonot
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Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

coming soon: twm, i3, vtwm.

i will also try to compare my impressions with those from that older #! thread.

please don't let the order in which i write the articles lead you to conclusions about my preferences.
i simply took those first that intrigued me because of challenge (dwm) or because they promised some old school nerdy fun (twm), and because i didn't know them yet.

the real idea behind this is that you cannot write an article about something like a window manager after trying it out for 15 minutes - you have to make it your daily driver for a while. which takes more than a day imho.

about musca:
no web page, no packages, no source - i think it's simply gone or has long since merged into other projects, as this entry for herbsluftwm suggests.

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#10 2016-11-20 09:37:20

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Musca is hibernating oon github:
https://github.com/gccyugi/musca

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#11 2016-11-20 09:54:59

ohnonot
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Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

i see.
tbh, in this state it is of no interest to me.
there's plenty maintained wms to choose from.
musca was probably a cool project when it was first conceived, but it seems that its ideas and/or source have been long since integrated into other projects.

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#12 2016-11-20 12:25:20

ohnonot
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

the old crunchbang forums thread contains convenient links to each wm's article, unfortunately the domain crunchbanglinux.org has been taken over long since...
i managed to solve this by installing the Redirector addon (palemoon users here) and adding a rule like this:
redirect-cb.png

...

i would have liked to solve this via /etc/hosts by appending this line:

45.56.69.119    crunchbanglinux.org

but that doesn't work (bunsenlab's nginx server would throw an error) - twoion, maybe it is possible to fix that server-side?

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#13 2016-11-20 12:49:26

twoion
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Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,149

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

the old crunchbang forums thread contains convenient links to each wm's article, unfortunately the domain crunchbanglinux.org has been taken over long since...
i managed to solve this by installing the Redirector addon (palemoon users here) and adding a rule like this:
http://dt.iki.fi/stuff/redirect-cb.png

...

i would have liked to solve this via /etc/hosts by appending this line:

45.56.69.119    crunchbanglinux.org

but that doesn't work (bunsenlab's nginx server would throw an error) - twoion, maybe it is possible to fix that server-side?

What? http://crunchbang.org/forums/.

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#14 2016-11-20 13:54:45

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

the old crunchbang forums thread contains convenient links to each wm's article, unfortunately the domain crunchbanglinux.org has been taken over long since...

I went through the links by hand a while ago, I will have to do that again when I have a moment -- that resource is still useful IMO.


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#15 2016-11-20 15:32:33

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I will have to do that again when I have a moment

I have corrected the links, they should all work now smile


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII., 18.

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#16 2016-11-20 16:34:38

Nili
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Very nice page ohnonot, I'm positioned on simplicity spectrwm since a year.


OS: Devuan NETINST
WM: Openbox

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#17 2016-11-20 20:02:40

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
Website

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

i see.
tbh, in this state it is of no interest to me.
there's plenty maintained wms to choose from.
musca was probably a cool project when it was first conceived, but it seems that its ideas and/or source have been long since integrated into other projects.

I will follow your journey with interest.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#18 2016-11-20 21:44:24

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I will have to do that again when I have a moment

I have corrected the links, they should all work now smile

woot?
thanks, i din't realize they were still editable.

where are the forums now physically located? is it a redirect to corenominal's severs?

in any case, the crunchbanglinux.org issue might be worth solving for the rest of the forums, if it is possible.
did you understand now twoion or do you need more explanation?
wink

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#19 2016-11-20 21:46:02

ohnonot
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Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

i have added a twm article now.
also having a bitchy fight with my cms, sorry if there's some glitching. it should be ok now.

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#20 2016-11-21 15:02:08

PackRat
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Registered: 2015-10-02
Posts: 763

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

my interest was in those that

    typically run in a standalone session (not as part of a desktop environment, like e.g. mutter for gnome)
    are capable of both floating and tiling, a.k.a. "dynamic"
    are somewhat maintained or at least usable, not too obscure

How are your skills with haskell? Have you taken look at Xmonad. It's in the repos - just make sure to get all three of those packages. Once the contrib packages are installed you can configure Xmonad with a whole buch of user contributed layouts, and, with some tweaking, replace Xfce window manager with Xmonad if you want to go taht route. Once you have it configured it's easy to cycle through tabbed, tiled, floating layouts.

Last edited by PackRat (2016-11-21 15:24:54)


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#21 2016-11-23 19:40:46

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
Website

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Inspired by this thread and realising that my daily use of Openbox and pywo has turned me into an almost 'pure' tiler I started to 'shop around' the other day. I now have both Herbstluftwm and i3 on my old 32-bit box running #!.

I haven't done much with them yet apart form firing both up to see if they work. I have, however, enjoyed some demos on youtube:

Three-part i3 introduction starting here.

15 minute Herbstluft intro.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#22 2016-11-24 04:39:24

ohnonot
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Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

my haskell skills are exactly nought (0).

funny, i just downloaded the exact same i3 videos, using i3 right now.
a little stuck at trying to emulate desktop-right-click-menu...

i will have to revise my original list of 17 managers at some point, but i still have a few in-depth reviews ahead of me...

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#23 2016-11-24 19:50:54

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
Website

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

ohnonot wrote:

funny, i just downloaded the exact same i3 videos, using i3 right now.
a little stuck at trying to emulate desktop-right-click-menu...

Not one of my worries as I have been a dmenu fan for a long time. Having dmenu as a default feature was one of things that made me interested in #! in the first place.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#24 2017-01-05 22:46:09

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 230
Website

Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Just wondering how this 'project' is progressing.

Myself, I have decided to take i3 for a serious spin becuse I find both Unity and Gnome wanting on my work laptop when in 'laptop mode' (no external keyboard, no mouse). I have already realised i3 may not cut it at work (important CAE program seg faults when I am in i3) but I am considering it as an alternative to the standard BL user interface for my home computer.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#25 2017-01-06 05:39:10

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,951
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Re: Windowmanagers - a slow marathon with breaks

Martin wrote:

I have decided to take i3 for a serious spin

this is exactly where i got stuck - i'm getting along with it so well, and then christmas & family happened so no article yet.
thanks for reminding me; if i didn't hang around various forums so much i had more time to write articles.
ops

Last edited by ohnonot (2017-01-06 05:39:29)

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