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#2401 2018-11-04 10:04:11

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 324
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

A modern 500 is more like 800+ kg for the lightest version: http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Fiat/new/500.html

Crash safety and sound deadening -- all of which did not exist when the original 500 was designed...

On a positive note: Modern cars are, despite their obesity, more frugal than old cars and they are much cleaner. The catalytic converter must fire up for this to be true and it takes a few minutes to do so after a cold start which is one reason for avoiding short trips.

A much more severe health issue related to the air we breathe was brought up by WHO earlier this week: About 1 bilion (US bilion) people live in conditions where heating and cooking is done using open fire and there is no chimney to help the smoke out. This is bad for your health to put it mildly. And it is old news. National Geographic wrote about this a few years ago. The article was given the title "When cooking kills". Björn Lomborg (a Danish environmental debater) brought it up years before that pointing out that bringing electricity to those people would be a very good deed even if it meant building more coal fired power plants.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#2402 2018-11-04 19:02:07

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,741
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Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

glittersloth wrote:

Are you talking about the original 500 (which was marketed with that weight but actually weighed closer to 600 at the curb) or the modern ones?

i thought i was looking at the wiki page for the new on, but i just checked, it was the old one.
i stand corrected.

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#2403 2018-11-17 12:12:49

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,409

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

RANT.

An alternative to WhatsApp and the original Signal protocol implementation is Signal (duh) by OpenWhisperSystems.

Signal used to have a desktop client as a Chrome/Chromium browser extension which worked really well, but a while ago they thought they needed a 'stand-alone' program and spun the extension off into signal-desktop]signal-desktop, a hot pile of garbage which 'runs' the original extension in just another Chromium browser, just now they call that 'Electron'. It looks like crap, uses huge amount of memories and has the most basic bugs in its user interface which you get when you cobble together style rules using CSS instead of a sane description language and when your 'desktop application' is slow HTML+CSS+JavaScript garbage. I still don't know what they were thinking.

Good to know, WhatsApp is going to introduce advertisments (owned by Facebook, so high time) soon and thankfully (despite the app's extremely high market share here in Germany among the under-30 (and also over-40, I was surprised to learn)) the more independent Telegram has gained traction (although an ecrypted by-default SMS/MMS replacement built into the OS would be better, like iMessage).

Telegram has a desktop client too and I was surprised to see it is a REAL, NATIVE Qt5 application and that it is SO much better designed, SO much faster and SO much more stable than signal-desktop. It's lightning-fast. It is so much better. Thanks to Qt5 it is cross-platform and runs on Windows, macOS and Linux and BSD. Qt encapsulates 23 years of toolkit development and it shows. It is easy to write. Well-documented. All you need to write a modern GUI. So WHY DID SIGNAL CHOOSE ELECTRON. They release 'patch releases' every second day. They spend 1000s of hours working around stupid JavaScript in commits like here and get lost in async/await forests that are modern JavaScript. Telegram-Desktop's GUI  was probably designed and implemented by one guy over the course of one week and then they could focus on real problems like improving the Telegram protocol/their backends instead of wondering how to center an item vertically and horizontally in a desktop application in 2018.

But I guess the 'JS' developers are never out of work this way, good for them.

That software is so bad. JavaScript is not a language for desktop applications. Unbelievable.


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#2404 2018-11-17 14:10:13

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 211

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I used Telegram for a few months and liked it, too, but for some reason most of my contacts stopped using it. So, I haven't used it for a while.

I used it both on the Linux desktop and iOS.

Tim

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#2405 2018-11-17 15:30:36

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,741
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

despite the app's extremely high market share here in Germany among the under-30 (and also over-40, I was surprised to learn)

not only my younger work colleagues, but also my 70+ parents (germany) and my 60+ boss keep bugging me about it.

the more independent Telegram has gained traction

should i ask my family to use this with me?
...nah, it's hopeless. they have their whatsapp groups, and telegram probably uses a separate universe altogether.
the only chance is to evtl. figure out how to use whatsapp, maybe with a spoofed phone number (definitely not my real one, lol). on my desktop computer would be totally sufficient, i don't need it on my phone.

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#2406 2018-11-17 18:28:05

Dobbie03
Resident Metalhead
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 2,248
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I have tried and tried to get my family on to Telegram but no one wants to.  They are all happy on WhatsApp which I really do not like.


I like my Metal like my coffee.......Black!
Resident Metalhead Poser

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#2407 2018-11-17 21:35:26

glittersloth
...always giving it to you straight
Registered: 2015-09-30
Posts: 765

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

@twoion
Good rant. Enjoyed it.

@ratcheer
How's the Fireblade running?

I've long given up on trying to convince others to switch away from WhatSap. Besides, over here even businesses use it. Maybe a couple of years ago, they (eg: insurance agent offering a quote) would at least have the decency to ask, "Do you prefer e-mail of whatsapp?", but nowadays they don't even bother anymore. It's just assumed that everyone and his roach uses it now. That's why I have to carry two smartphones, with WhatsApp and all the contacts that use it going into the "dirty" phone. Never used any of these messaging services (aside from iMessage/FaceTime on MacOS) on the desktop though, nor do I ever plan to. Heck, that aforementioned dirty phone doesn't even connect to my home network.

TL;DR - Our only cure is extinction.

Last edited by glittersloth (2018-11-17 21:38:21)

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#2408 2018-11-17 21:40:20

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 4,906

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

glittersloth wrote:

...

TL;DR - Our only cure is extinction.

Don't worry, we are working hard on it sad


Be Excellent to Each Other...

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#2409 2018-11-17 22:55:34

Martin
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 324
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

damo wrote:
glittersloth wrote:

...

TL;DR - Our only cure is extinction.

Don't worry, we are working hard on it sad

You need a healthy dose of Hans Rosling (look him on TED for instance or go look for Gapminder).

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

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#2410 2018-11-19 08:14:40

Jimbo_G
Member
From: France
Registered: 2017-05-12
Posts: 121

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I have managed to get one family group onto Telegram (although I'd rather use Signal) and although they all still use Whatsapp they don't seem to mind having two different apps.

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#2411 2018-11-19 09:36:07

cherkie
Member
From: UK(still...)
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 93

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

It's Monday and today I am 500 days free from porn and 107 days free from PC games.

Both are rather big achievements for me.


I don't have patience or skill to dig deep enough every time system breaks itself or when I break something because of lack of patience and skill.
nore, 23 Feb 2019

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#2412 2018-11-19 10:05:24

damo
....moderator....
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 4,906

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Congratulations on your personal milestones smile I hope you are using the extra time productively?


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#2413 2018-11-19 11:02:59

cherkie
Member
From: UK(still...)
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 93

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

thank you! yes I am.

studying for network+, followed by security+ and then doing masters in cyber sec en route to cyber security as my career path. and naturally some leisure - basketball, skateboarding and most importantly daily 1 hour walks with my wife after work.

most recently started using notebook app to keep writing things in it that happen daily because my memory is terrible from 20 years of pc games abuse.

Last edited by cherkie (2018-11-19 11:05:23)


I don't have patience or skill to dig deep enough every time system breaks itself or when I break something because of lack of patience and skill.
nore, 23 Feb 2019

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#2414 2018-11-19 14:48:55

ratcheer
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2015-10-05
Posts: 211

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

@glittersloth - The Fireblade is running fine, but it's time to winterize it and wait for Spring. It is too much of a super sport for an old man such as me, so I may have to sell it and buy something more reasonable. It is about  a half-step away from being a race bike.

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#2415 2018-11-19 22:52:24

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,409

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Been thinking to pull the trigger on buying a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro headphones for around 120€ (250Ω). My old Sennheiser eh350 are perfectly fine but cost 50€ in 2011 when I bought them; the cushions are due for a replacement and I've already replaced the cable for 15€ each 3 times, so I've paid a lot more for these than I'd like to admit (although they still sound perfectly fine and I use them every day).

The biggest advantage of the DT 770 is that I would've finally own one pair of headphones to use on the train (the EH350 are open headphones like the dt 880 which I would buy for home use only, so no good in that kind of environment); so far I only ever used those earbuds coming with phones/MP3 players and while there are high-end models available, the quality never justified the cost and all of those sound horrible anyway.

My old, worn-out, very good-sounding eh350 headphones with their cheaply built frame:

eh350.th.jpg

Travelled 10s of thousands of miles with them, used them at home and then some. I'll keep them around for the next decades for sure. I see that some sellers ask for 200$ for these nowadays, that's pretty lunatic smile


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#2416 2018-11-20 06:12:02

GutsAndGlory!
Member
From: Squigly line
Registered: 2017-04-15
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^@twoion Thinkpad, what model is that if you don't mind? I'm looking to buy an X220 for computing but not gaming, so I'd like to hear from someone that has a Thinkpad... (Though I'll definitely install PPSSPP)

@cherkie
Congratulations, man. From what you've said, it seems like you were addicted and I'm happy to hear that you've overcome it.

And if you guys excuse me....
marte.th.png


The world won't change for the better unless we trust people. Trust is vital in a peaceful world but that will never happen.


« Yo buddy, still alive? »

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#2417 2018-11-20 09:17:04

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,409

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

GutsAndGlory! wrote:

^@twoion Thinkpad, what model is that if you don't mind? I'm looking to buy an X220 for computing but not gaming, so I'd like to hear from someone that has a Thinkpad... (Though I'll definitely install PPSSPP)


This is an x240 with i5-4210U. My two cents:

X220 and X230 times are over, they are too slow nowadays not in terms of CPU but in terms of their integrated graphics. The worst part in them is their standard display – try to replace the panel with an IPS version (there are kits around) because looking at a screen from 2005 hurts your eyes over time.

Then, if you ever need more than 8G of RAM, don't buy the x240 either, because that's what the maximum supported amount is. X240 and earlier doesn't support a single stick of 16G RAM yet, and it only has 1 slot (x230 and earlier has 2 slots for 2x8G, and x250 and later accept 16G RAM bars).

If you want to play PPSSPP (I've tried only Dolphin for the newer consoles) then you must know that the x240 i5 is too slow for emulating more than the N64. Obviously, GB, GBA, DS emulators etc run well enough, but not more advanced stuff. Go with a fast i7 only. This is because emulation is heavily CPU bound, and when you compare the iCore desktop CPUs with the same-gen mobile CPUs, you'll see that the desktop versions are many times faster, also because the maximum wattage of the X series' CPUs are capped.

So try to get a good price on a x250 or later or the x230 if you're willing to replace the display; x240 is not so nice (but of course has been running like a tank for the past 4.25 years).

Also: I recommend the 4.14.x kernel series, and to NOT enable any spectre/meltdown mitigations and NOT to upgrade the Intel CPU microcode past the 20171117 release (so do NOT upgrade the BIOS/EC past version 2.40 or install a recent microcode update package in Debian or Arch) because the computer will become noticably slower at disk I/O, even on SSD. Spectre/Meltdown mitigations are damaging to mobile Haswell CPUs. Similar goes probably for the later but the very latest iCore generations.


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#2418 2018-11-20 12:26:47

GutsAndGlory!
Member
From: Squigly line
Registered: 2017-04-15
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

This is an x240 with i5-4210U. My two cents:

X220 and X230 times are over, they are too slow nowadays not in terms of CPU but in terms of their integrated graphics. [...] If you want to play PPSSPP (I've tried only Dolphin for the newer consoles) then you must know that the x240 i5 is too slow for emulating more than the N64. [...] also because the maximum wattage of the X series' CPUs are capped.

The wattage I understand but you're sure I can't play PSP games? I've played GTA:LCS and Densha de Go on an i3-2310M before with OpenGL. (Granted that was before Intel's CPUs were discovered to be swiss cheese...) PPSSPP lets you use OpenGL to draw the graphics instead of emulating them which I think helps, but I remember I had some hacks to speed it up slightly. Plus, I'm looking to run i3-wm on it.

twoion wrote:

So try to get a good price on a x250 or later or the x230 if you're willing to replace the display; x240 is not so nice (but of course has been running like a tank for the past 4.25 years).

I have this impression that the earlier the model, the closer it is to the Eye Bee Emm core that it and thus more modular, robust and (my stupid opinion, I see as a plus) industrial design and so overall better. Can you confirm or deny that?

twoion wrote:

Also: I recommend the 4.14.x kernel series, and to NOT enable any spectre/meltdown mitigations and NOT to upgrade the Intel CPU microcode past the 20171117 release (so do NOT upgrade the BIOS/EC past version 2.40 or install a recent microcode update package in Debian or Arch)

>patching the mitigations out
So, if I want a newer line of kernels, it would be worth it to install Gentoo? I could apt source the kernel and keep Debian but Gentoo is based around source.

Install Gentoo.

Cheers mate.


The world won't change for the better unless we trust people. Trust is vital in a peaceful world but that will never happen.


« Yo buddy, still alive? »

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#2419 2018-11-20 14:14:48

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,409

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

GutsAndGlory! wrote:
twoion wrote:

This is an x240 with i5-4210U. My two cents:

X220 and X230 times are over, they are too slow nowadays not in terms of CPU but in terms of their integrated graphics. [...] If you want to play PPSSPP (I've tried only Dolphin for the newer consoles) then you must know that the x240 i5 is too slow for emulating more than the N64. [...] also because the maximum wattage of the X series' CPUs are capped.

The wattage I understand but you're sure I can't play PSP games? I've played GTA:LCS and Densha de Go on an i3-2310M before with OpenGL. (Granted that was before Intel's CPUs were discovered to be swiss cheese...) PPSSPP lets you use OpenGL to draw the graphics instead of emulating them which I think helps, but I remember I had some hacks to speed it up slightly. Plus, I'm looking to run i3-wm on it.

Interesting. Maybe the PPP CPU emulation is not so computing-intensive as the Wii-/Gamecube-/PS3.

But, even when it comes to OpenGL: Even the meakest discrete AMD or NVIDIA GPU from 2011 is 2x-10x faster than my integrated Intel graphics from 2014 depending on what you do. More modern GPUs leave any discrete Intel chip in the dust. Check out the benchmarks for CPU you think of buying.

twoion wrote:

So try to get a good price on a x250 or later or the x230 if you're willing to replace the display; x240 is not so nice (but of course has been running like a tank for the past 4.25 years).

I have this impression that the earlier the model, the closer it is to the Eye Bee Emm core that it and thus more modular, robust and (my stupid opinion, I see as a plus) industrial design and so overall better. Can you confirm or deny that?

More modular - no. Modularity is the same. Look up the hardware maintenance manuals of the laptops; every FRU has documentation on how you have to service it. I've replaced the hard drives and removed the entire bottom assembly to clean the keyboard on my laptop, replaced the heat conducting paste between CPU and cooler – all no problem, all documented, you can order all single parts.

More durable - Lenovo started replacing the magnesium alloy used for the early X series casings after the x201 with different carbon (mostly the top case) and magnesium (most the bottom case) blends. The true roll cage is retained only in very few models (even the x230 doesn't have one, you have to google for the earlier ones). It is mostly retained in the top of the line P series. For other lines, you have to look it up. If a regid device is your top priority, you don't buy X, you buy W or P.

twoion wrote:

Also: I recommend the 4.14.x kernel series, and to NOT enable any spectre/meltdown mitigations and NOT to upgrade the Intel CPU microcode past the 20171117 release (so do NOT upgrade the BIOS/EC past version 2.40 or install a recent microcode update package in Debian or Arch)

>patching the mitigations out
So, if I want a newer line of kernels, it would be worth it to install Gentoo? I could apt source the kernel and keep Debian but Gentoo is based around source.

IDK. I'm using Arch and it ships the most recent long-term kernel, which is 4.14.x. I don't know anything about how Gentoo handles kernels. Just use what is easiest to use with your preferred default distros. I only recommended 4.14 because even as late as 4.14.1 there still were some hardware issues (re. power management). After 80 or so point releases on this LTS branch though, all hardware works reliably and beautifully.


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#2420 2018-11-21 00:14:03

GutsAndGlory!
Member
From: Squigly line
Registered: 2017-04-15
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

Check out the benchmarks for CPU you think of buying. Look up the hardware maintenance manuals of the laptops; every FRU has documentation on how you have to service it.

Wilco.

twoion wrote:

So try to get a good price on a x250 or later or the x230 if you're willing to replace the display; x240 is not so nice (but of course has been running like a tank for the past 4.25 years).

Over here, there isn't a single x250 for sale, x240's are scarce, whereas the T-series are plenty. Damn. Should I get an ugly-ass x240 over an aesthetic x230?

EDIT: The market is flooded with cheap T430's...

Last edited by GutsAndGlory! (2018-11-21 00:54:47)


The world won't change for the better unless we trust people. Trust is vital in a peaceful world but that will never happen.


« Yo buddy, still alive? »

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#2421 2018-11-21 01:03:25

twoion
ほやほや
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 2,409

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

GutsAndGlory! wrote:

EDIT: The market is flooded with cheap T430's...

Hm, some of these come with builtin Nvidia graphics (https://thinkwiki.de/T430)! Would be a nice upgrade compared to the x230. According to https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/comp … 1541vs2643 the NVS 5400M would still be 40% faster than my 2014's x240's HD4400…though I imagine battery life would not be so great.

If you're still a student you might want to look for educational discounts on new TP too; I got my x240 marked down 400€ when I bought it new this way.


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#2422 2018-11-21 07:19:10

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 3,741
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

X220 and X230 times are over, they are too slow nowadays not in terms of CPU but in terms of their integrated graphics. The worst part in them is their standard display

i very recently spent about a week trawling both national and international markets for a laptop.
i made it clear to myself what i really want: media (video) playback is very important to me and was maybe the most important reason to sell my pinebook.
at the same time, i do not want to faff around with dual/hybrid graphics, all-intel is the way.

so i took this as my most important rule of thumb:

Ultra High Definition (2160P or 4K) HEVC playback using UHDcode is supported on PCs with the latest generation integrated processors and graphics such as AMD “Kaveri” A-Series APU processors and Intel 4th Generation Core processors with Intel® Iris™ graphics.  UHD HEVC playback is also supported on modern multi-core desktop systems with AMD Radeon R9 graphics boards or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 600 and 700 series GPUs.

not sure why UHD, but i know from personal experience that HEVC playback won't work if your GPU doesn't support it.
Intel Iris is the key, and that started around 2013.
so any laptop older than that is out.
and i cannot afford a thinkpad that is new enough.
simple.

i've seen loads of thinkpad x220's being sold for +/- 200€.
they're probably still good machines, but that's just crazy.
it's automatically more expensive only because it's thinkpad.

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#2423 2018-11-23 02:37:12

GutsAndGlory!
Member
From: Squigly line
Registered: 2017-04-15
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

btw I made a github repository for my text editor I posted earlier. Here.


The world won't change for the better unless we trust people. Trust is vital in a peaceful world but that will never happen.


« Yo buddy, still alive? »

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#2424 2018-11-29 14:02:33

AI
Member
Registered: 2017-04-26
Posts: 8

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

Intel Iris is the key, and that started around 2013.

Liking the sound of your research -
(Explains some of my frugal disappointments)

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#2425 2018-11-30 06:30:42

jdonaghy
The Manatee Whisperer
Registered: 2015-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Got some good news from my doctor, today. I'm in remission. Maybe now I can get back into the swing of things.

Also, kind of in love with DDE (whether on Antergos or Deepin, itself).

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