You are not logged in.

#4151 2021-11-02 00:25:05

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,615
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

el_koraco wrote:

...the likelihood that this is true is slim to none.

johnraff wrote:

Where are you getting this data from?

el_koraco wrote:

It should be the other way around...

You made a quite categorical assertion, which should be backed up by... something.


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#4152 2021-11-02 15:10:02

twoion
一期一会
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,436

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Hey, we added this new feature to the application that is the core of your everyday computer work, but! it's temporary, so get it while it's hot!

w847e.png

Mozilla deserves to go under. They have dwindling resources and still spent developer time on this crap. They might as well put all their developers on creating new gtk themes and uploading them to gnome-looks.org instead of "uploading them to Firefox".

Remember the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability? When nothing was flat and icons as informative as possible?

1340-1.png
win2000pro.png

Offline

#4153 2021-11-02 20:03:14

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 609
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

Remember the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability? When nothing was flat and icons as informative as possible?

Sure do but in my case it was CDE on a SUN workstation.

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Offline

#4154 2021-11-03 01:08:59

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,864

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

OH YEA! Guess those days are over.


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#4155 2021-11-03 01:50:28

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,615
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

...the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability?

So, how does BL do? Anything we could easily improve, or is it all tied up in the GTK libraries?


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#4156 2021-11-03 02:54:51

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,759
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

johnraff wrote:
el_koraco wrote:

...the likelihood that this is true is slim to none.

johnraff wrote:

Where are you getting this data from?

el_koraco wrote:

It should be the other way around...

You made a quite categorical assertion, which should be backed up by... something.

You'll get nothing and like it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNJq_wI1ns


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

Offline

#4157 2021-11-03 03:16:55

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,759
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Phil Collins - Sussudio (1985)

Synth bass, though Leland Sklar did it on bass in live preformances...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qBaBb1Y-U


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

Offline

#4158 2021-11-03 03:28:55

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,759
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ Video or it didn't happen. 1990...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS5i5zVGEY8

Sklar is the old hipster with the beard.


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

Offline

#4159 2021-11-03 09:25:52

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 552

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

el_koraco wrote:
misko_2083 wrote:
el_koraco wrote:

what is her reasoning?

Didn't ask doc.
Best guess is it's still possible to get reinfection after some period of time.
Maybe she had cases like that I don't know.

Your doctor, the doctor of immunology, does not seem to pay much attention to literature. Oh well: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x

After infection there is some natural protection but it's not clear how long it will last.


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

Offline

#4160 2021-11-03 17:45:09

twoion
一期一会
Registered: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,436

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

johnraff wrote:
twoion wrote:

...the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability?

So, how does BL do? Anything we could easily improve, or is it all tied up in the GTK libraries?

Difficult question. Both GNOME and KDE change things up all the time, but the toolkits they use are largely consistent since GTK2 and Qt4, respectively.

BL is more of a tweaker. There are too many places to configure things to consider it internally consistent, but it's surface sure is better than Windows 8/10/11 or Firefox anti patterns any day because it' simple, practical and consistent.

In my opinion the only major OS that really pulled this off is OS X, GNOME is second in consistent UX design. OS X has the same essential look'n'feel since OS X 10.3/10.4 Puma/Tiger, being the first versions that had sidebars in Finder.app, which were released in 2003 and 2005, respectively. Put a guy that used Tiger in front of Mojave and he'll be able to get started just fine.

Over that time frame, GNOME went from 2 to 3 largely unchanged in paradigm, starting to switch things up with the CSDs in the later GTK3 versions, pivoting into GTK4. But GTK changed a lot internally, whereas OS X commercially supported interface classes with its carbon/cocoa API "kits" for a long period of time even in parallel. Windows departed from its classic "9x" widget style with XP, but preserving it throughout XP, Vista, 7, and 8 as a fallback. Their departure from a consistent look'n'feel started much earlier however with that blueish / flat-ish theme that emerged in extra runtime layers with .net and whatever theming Office 2003 used at about the time XP released.

As for Sun, that was largely B2B and my family in the 90s only had b2c hardware available. My father worked in an office job where the got PCs, not Suns.

Offline

#4161 2021-11-04 06:44:22

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 609
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Martin wrote:
twoion wrote:

Remember the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability? When nothing was flat and icons as informative as possible?

Sure do but in my case it was CDE on a SUN workstation.

/Martin

Today on OSNews:
https://www.osnews.com/story/134165/the … n-in-2021/

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Offline

#4162 2021-11-04 08:13:25

hhh
Ol' Pink Eyes
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 12,759
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ Gah! No, not the best best DE ever, as the article claims. Gravestone shmavestone.


Does your physical disability preclude you from coming to the point?

Offline

#4163 2021-11-04 09:48:40

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 552

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Who wants those old looking gray windows? No offense twoion, but not many.
Redmond, Redbuntu, MacApple and Googledroid competition are pushing new fashion with flat themes.


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

Offline

#4164 2021-11-04 18:11:01

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Quesnel BC Canada
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 232

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:
johnraff wrote:
twoion wrote:

...the days when PC desktops were designed to get as much work done as quickly as possible without bling? When GUI design was based on lengthy user studies and optimized for usability?

So, how does BL do? Anything we could easily improve, or is it all tied up in the GTK libraries?

Difficult question. Both GNOME and KDE change things up all the time, but the toolkits they use are largely consistent since GTK2 and Qt4, respectively.

BL is more of a tweaker. There are too many places to configure things to consider it internally consistent, but it's surface sure is better than Windows 8/10/11 or Firefox anti patterns any day because it' simple, practical and consistent.

In my opinion the only major OS that really pulled this off is OS X, GNOME is second in consistent UX design. OS X has the same essential look'n'feel since OS X 10.3/10.4 Puma/Tiger, being the first versions that had sidebars in Finder.app, which were released in 2003 and 2005, respectively. Put a guy that used Tiger in front of Mojave and he'll be able to get started just fine.

Over that time frame, GNOME went from 2 to 3 largely unchanged in paradigm, starting to switch things up with the CSDs in the later GTK3 versions, pivoting into GTK4. But GTK changed a lot internally, whereas OS X commercially supported interface classes with its carbon/cocoa API "kits" for a long period of time even in parallel. Windows departed from its classic "9x" widget style with XP, but preserving it throughout XP, Vista, 7, and 8 as a fallback. Their departure from a consistent look'n'feel started much earlier however with that blueish / flat-ish theme that emerged in extra runtime layers with .net and whatever theming Office 2003 used at about the time XP released.

As for Sun, that was largely B2B and my family in the 90s only had b2c hardware available. My father worked in an office job where the got PCs, not Suns.

To be honest I sometimes miss the days when I was using Gnome 2 with Compiz-Beryl. I never found bling and functionality to be mutually exclusive. Of course having a box with decent hardware was always part of my experience. When your computer is snappy and responsive even with all the bling enabled, then why not have it? Once customized to ones workflow it's not a hindrance at all.

I can also say that when people saw what I was running it was responsible for quite a few people converting to Linux. The following on redit would suggest that my experience with that was not unique. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments … ecause_of/


“The university is well structured, well tooled, to turn out people with all the sharp edges worn off...." Mario Savio
"Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse". Help enforce our right to free and anonymous speech by running a Tor relay.

Offline

#4165 2021-11-05 08:24:03

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 552

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

What would you do if a state required you to install an application on your phone that you have to use to scan your face whenever the state wants you to?
If you don't do that you get arrested.
Face recognition and geolocation app on government demand in Australia.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a … ar-AAO2FD9


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

Offline

#4166 2021-11-05 08:42:44

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2015-09-09
Posts: 8,615
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Just spent 14 days of exactly that here in Japan. It's called home quarantine. Now it's over of course I immediately uninstalled all the apps, turned off location history and disabled GPS - for whatever that's worth. The phone is now switched off too...


...elevator in the Brain Hotel, broken down but just as well...
( a boring Japan blog (currently paused), idle Twitterings and GitStuff )

Introduction to the Bunsenlabs Lithium Desktop

Offline

#4167 2021-11-05 11:29:11

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 552

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^That's absolutely chilling.
We all know that the governments have the software to access any phone, cameras, microphone, offline and online data, GPS, communication and online accounts.
There is particularly a system from Britain which costs a devil.
Even if the phone is off it can be turned on remotely with the screen off of course.
Works with the smart TVs and watches too.
The only way to stop it is to take out the battery, but new phones come with the battery soldered onto the board.

Japanese are very well trained, there would be a revolution here if such measures were in place.
So the gov probably covertly followed geolocations of the phones whose users were in isolation.
I purposely write user instead of owner. The reason is phone isn't actually owned by a person who payed for it.
Soon the owners of car will be only users.
If the car company can drive it remotely then the buyer is only it's user.


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

Offline

#4168 2021-11-05 14:13:38

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,864

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

misko_2083 wrote:

^That's absolutely chilling.
{snip}
I purposely write user instead of owner. The reason is phone isn't actually owned by a person who payed for it.
Soon the owners of car will be only users.
If the car company can drive it remotely then the buyer is only it's user.

Shades of 1984.  George Orwell warned us in 1948 in his book.  He couldn't think of a good name for the book so he reversed the last two numbers: 1984.

Now that might sound sound a bit negative but reading what you wrote misko_2083 proves that fiction becomes reality.  Along with a whole bunch of other things.

Did not know that about Japan.

Now it's over of course I immediately uninstalled all the apps, turned off location history and disabled GPS - for whatever that's worth. The phone is now switched off too...

You think that will work?  I ask because of the for whatever that's worth
I have never turned on GPS, my wife has.  I find it disturbing that so many people take in all this "control" as 'ho-hum, it is what it is'.

What can we do about it?  Nothing!


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#4169 2021-11-05 15:01:38

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,656

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Sector11 wrote:

What can we do about it?  Nothing!

^^I cannot agree with this statement.  glasses

If the government wants to "put something on" my computer/smartphone to control me, then I have to contribute to it myself!
In the case of john he has contributed to it (if it has happened so).

I know of no legal obligation to do so! I am not completely without protection.

Last edited by unklar (2021-11-05 15:08:12)

Offline

#4170 2021-11-05 21:39:11

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,864

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I don't think you understood unklar.

They (the governments of the world) already have this access.  These "apps" to control your "quarantine" are only a convenience.

A good read:

https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2020/10/ … a/fulltext

In part 1:

"There are very few legal limits on what governments can do with even the most personal data once they have it."

In part 2:

The coronavirus outbreak earlier this year has led to even greater sharing of location data between mobile carriers and data collectors. Mobile carriers in Italy, Germany, and Austria shared location tracking info with authorities, while Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong used location monitoring systems to ensure that people who were carrying COVID-19 were staying at home. Further, the Israeli government in March approved emergency measures that allowed its security agencies to track the mobile-phone data of people suspected to be infected with the coronavirus, as well as allowing authorities to enforce quarantines and warn those who may have come into contact with people infected with the virus.

They get what they want by whatever means they can. Wikileaks comes to mind.


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#4171 2021-11-05 21:55:09

Sector11
Conky 1.9er Mod Squid
From: Upstairs
Registered: 2015-08-20
Posts: 6,864

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat


The sun will never set if you keep walking towards it. - my son
Being positive doesn't understand physics.
_______________________________
Debian 10 Buster = SharpBang ♯!

Offline

#4172 2021-11-05 23:10:02

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 552

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Yup, plus all the data collected by ISPs.
Calling it "my phone" is only partially true.
"Our phone" is a complete term.
Yours, your manufacturer's, your government's phone and whoever pays.
A multiuser device. :-)
Remember when Tesla company found the location of and took control of the Tesla car to drive it out of the garage for debt collectors to pick up?
There is no hardware off switch in Tesla which cuts the flow of the electrical current frrom the battery to the computer.
The same principle goes for the new phones.


They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do!

Offline

#4173 2021-11-06 10:26:19

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 89

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

misko_2083 wrote:

Japanese are very well trained, there would be a revolution here if such measures were in place..

The Japanese were selectively bred for compliance.
For about 400 years the samurai had the authority to kill any lower rank for a large number of offenses including 'failure to behave as expected'.
Eventually the rebellious ones were eliminated from the gene pool.

Offline

#4174 2021-11-06 10:30:29

jeffreyC
Member
Registered: 2019-09-07
Posts: 89

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

If only the Pine Phone (or a similar Linux phone) would actually work.

Hardware switches, removable battery, an OS made with freedom in mind...

Offline

#4175 2021-11-06 11:45:29

unklar
Back to the roots 1.9
From: #! BL
Registered: 2015-10-31
Posts: 1,656

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Sector11 wrote:

I don't think you understood unklar.

^^I get what you're saying.  smile

But eh, I am a thinking, critical person. I was already educated to this in my homeland GDR. That's why I finally went to Linux, because that supports my idea of "freedom".

I don't HAVE to buy a smartphone running Guugel's GMS or Apple iOS. I don't HAVE to install a Corona app.  I don't HAVE to turn on my smartphone's location service. I don't HAVE to get vaccinated with a vaccine that still only has emergency approval worldwide and whose long-term effects are unknown.
The German government still prevents me from getting vaccinated with the Luebeck vaccine or the Russian "Sputnik" vaccine.
I don't let them scare me.

Of course, at the moment I have to endure great restrictions up to the family. I can deal with that, because I know, e.g. by Linux, "detours" also lead to the goal.
On my Smartfon there are only Apps of F-Droid, which I select myself from this Blog and which I support therefore monthly financially.

The example with Tesla is good. Apart from the "price" of this vehicle, the climate harmfulness of this product and its renewed dead end is already obvious today.
Ursula von der Leyen uses the airplane for a distance of 50km as the crow flies. A few days before she tells the world the shit "climate change and climate protection".

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB