You are not logged in.

#3676 2021-02-06 07:05:20

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

twoion wrote:

text quotes protected by copyright must now only be a maximum of n characters long

This is totally normal and analogous to non-internet copyright law.
Consider whole sites that only exist to copy-paste other sites' content wholesale. I personally think it's a good thing that something like this is being made illegal.

How much is n, I'd like to know?

twoion wrote:

and of course posting links to possibly copyright-infringing material without remuneration is a boo-boo thing now.

It's unclear to me what exacrtly you're refering to.
Are you saying you're making a boo-boo when you link an article that illegally quotes copyrighted material, and that you then have to pay that renumeration which the originally linked site didn't pay? I'm confused.
And what exactly is a "boo-boo" in this context?

All I can say is: there never was a link tax - in the sense that a simple link is being taxed. It was always about the little javascript-generated quote/summary pop-ups you get when hovering a link on social media.
The people who invented the term "link tax" have no idea how this works.

Again: there's no tax on links per se, and to my knowledge a simple link still isn't finable for any reason.

BunsenLabs is not an entity that hosts and distributes content for financial gain, and the new regulation will only be attacking platforms such as youtube and search engines as part of its first-order effects (fellow Germans, get used to 90% of youtube being "content not available in your jurisdiction", and better get used to using VPNs), but because we are accepting donations, and are hosting a forum, I will take action to move hosting of all user-facing BL services, with the forum going first, out of Germany.

I think all this is a vast over-reaction & exaggeration.
Not saying it's wrong to protest - but don't use such populist tactics.

malicious rogue lawyers who have been sending fines to German website owners who neglect putting their real name and home address (!) on their websites

That is regrettable, but still preferable to the malicious rip-offs we currently experience on a completely unregulated web.

It's one thing to constructively criticize new digital law, and another thing to simply dismiss it and pine for the good ol' times that never were.

It would be nice if for once you would reply to my points.

glittersloth wrote:

Der Spiegel is asking for my firstborn, so didn't read.

It displays just fine with all JS-shenanigans blocked (no cookies either): https://dt.iki.fi/stuff/forums/bunsen/spiegel.de.png


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3677 2021-02-06 07:52:27

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,232
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

@Sun For Miles, Hedges witnessed Yugoslavia first-hand...

https://niemanreports.org/articles/in-y … the-truth/

Slavenka Drakulic and Chris Hedges discuss Yugoslavia...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBFJR1pR-k4

Offline

#3678 2021-02-06 12:39:53

Sun For Miles
Member
Registered: 2017-04-12
Posts: 201

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Thanx again for more great links, hhh. It is a rare sight to see a Croat who would openly say that there was ethnic cleansing war crime comitted and caused exodus of couple of hundred thousand of Serbs from Croatia. However, it is also a rare site for a Serb to acknowledge crimes of it's own folk. This means that the facts of recent history are not yet "accepted" and there are still raw emotions guiding relations between the nations involved, because the roots are much deeper and as Slovenka Drakulić mentioned - it is hard to accept reality when you have been lied for decades under communism.

Kosovo problem is a very complex one and it's not "black and white" as one might perceive. Serbs and "Kosovo Albanains" were never the only parties interested in that territory. Just as a background, that small former part of Serbia holds one of the largest ore deposits of led, zinc, gold, etc. in Europe which were of course the biggest mines in ex-Yugolsavia. As someone who had briefings from military intelligence during my army time I can just mention a couple of little known info. There were 14 (fourteen) foreign (to Serbia) paramilitary organizations operating in that small territory wit money coming in from Turkey, UAE, Iran, USA... And as you might know it became one of the drug dealing hubs of Europe. Once Serbia completely lost the jurisdiction over it's borders and since war in ex-Yugoslavia started, drugs from Afghanistan are freely traveling to Albania/Kosovo and further to Western Europe. Albanian/Kosovo mafia is one of the strongest now in various countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway...

Just a "funny" timeline related to Kosovo to put everything in perspective.

1999 - Serbia was bombed by NATO in the operation "Merciful angel"

Following that event USA established military bases in the region:

2000 - Bondsteel, Kosovo - the largest US base in Europe
2005 - “Agreement Between Romania and the United States of America Regarding the Activities of United States Forces Located on the Territory of Romania”
2006 - Bulgarian–American Joint Military Facilities (I think four overall)
...

Reporting of the past "crimes" in Kosovo (be it by Kosova Liberation Army or Serbian paramilitary forces) is the least of everyone's problems now. Here is how it looked like for late grandad of my collegue who lived in Kosovo during the 90s: Serbian paramilitary forces came first and looted his farm (he was Serb by nationality) and leave him alone. Then came UCK ("Kosovo Liberation Army") and asked him to move out - gave him an ultimatum for a week. Old man didn't want to move, UCK came back and just killed him and took his land.

There were no armed innocent people in these wars. If you had no firearms you were just victim.

Last edited by Sun For Miles (2021-02-06 12:42:45)


Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?

Offline

#3679 2021-02-06 12:52:32

Sun For Miles
Member
Registered: 2017-04-12
Posts: 201

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

I would just add a couple of little known info related to Kosovo. Apart from the fact that their economy is non-existant and that they still (!) rely on electricity and telecommunication services largerly provided by Serbia, they are now in worse economic state than they were 30 years ago.

I personally saw convoys of teenagers a couple of years ago that originated from Kosovo that joined Syrian refugee migration posing as Syrians. Their elders gave them all the money thy could gather and sent them to Germany and Sweden. Who will be left to live in that god-forsaken land in 15 years?

Also, to complete the cirlce, the fact that UCK leaders just last year went to international tribunal to answer for war crimes during the mentioned wars means that there are a lot of unaknowledged historical facts from UCK side as well.

I feel sorry for all sides involved in these turmoils.


Señor Chang, why do you teach Spanish?

Offline

#3680 2021-02-06 20:31:37

hhh
Meep!
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 11,232
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

@Sun For Miles, thanks for your posts. It's always "follow the money". Afghanistan poppy feilds protected by US military, it's ironic.

Offline

#3681 2021-02-11 05:39:57

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:
twoion wrote:

text quotes protected by copyright must now only be a maximum of n characters long

This is totally normal and analogous to non-internet copyright law.
Consider whole sites that only exist to copy-paste other sites' content wholesale. I personally think it's a good thing that something like this is being made illegal.

How much is n, I'd like to know?

n is 160 I recently heard.
That's not much.
Images must be less than 150kB iirc (for memes etc.), and unaltered video and music only 10-15s.
I'm being unclear because I don't remember fully.

But I repeat, this is essentially the same as it was, only applied to the interwebz now.

And there's a difference between commercial and non-commercial sites, though again I'm not sure how that is applied, where the line is etc.
Like, can I quote more copyrighted material because my blog is clearly private/non-commercial, or is it a question of prosecution mostly?

It will take a while to learn all this, and frankly I'd prefer if it was just EU-wide and not per country (the above is about Germany only AFAIU).


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3682 2021-02-19 20:20:22

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

The misuse of the deepfake technology scares me.
Some 20 years ago I knew this technology is going to come one day. I couldn't imagine it will be so soon. I thought that only the governments would have such a technology to frame the whistle blowers, news reporters and simply anyone they don't like.
It's the usage of AI in a way that the face is replaced with another face in a video or a photo.
Reface Android app is used for fun. You could absolutely fake a trip to some tropical island or a jungle in Africa with the tech, simply posting videos on a social media platform. Ok, but make sure to show the video is fake! Else it would likely cause a visit from a tax collector because they follow the social media too. They would certainly  want to know where did you get the money for the trip.
What's scary is that anyone can pick up Facebook or Instagram photos and make deepfake porn.
Memes would say something like It's all fun and games until you find yourself in deepfake porn somewhere on the internet.
I've read that happened to someone even thought she deleted her facebook account years ago.
A quick DDG or Google search and you get a lot of celebrity deepfake porn.
Mostly celebrities are targeted but that doesn't exclude anyone.
Actually, publishing a video in YouTube also makes everyone appearing in the video exposed to the deepfake because anyone can use the faces in the video as a material to create new videos.
I also wonder how often is media using this technology to deliver fake news, influence elections or push corporate agenda.
There are some algorithms that detect deepfake and they are improving. On the other side deepfake is improving rapidly and soon it will be impossible to tell what is fake and what is real.
Even the criminals will deepfake their faces and publish in social media as an alibi. All they need is a surveillance video and a helper whose face will be replaced. Heck, an old video from a remote internet archive would do.
I can only assume what's going on in the deep and dark web.
Police and the government also has access to the tech and can manufacture these fakes.

Last edited by misko_2083 (2021-02-19 20:21:59)


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3683 2021-02-19 21:56:46

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 509
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

misko_2083 wrote:

The misuse of the deepfake technology scares me.

Is there any other use of it?
:-)

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Offline

#3684 2021-02-19 22:14:16

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Martin wrote:
misko_2083 wrote:

The misuse of the deepfake technology scares me.

Is there any other use of it?
:-)

/Martin

Ha ha, not that I know of.

Just remembered they use it in the movies.
The tech can replace actor's face if he/she suddenlybecomes unwanted in the film industry.

Btw it's often on Facebook, usually some random page posts deepfake celebrity videos
promissing a reward in exchange for personal data, bank account number, money... the usual stuff.


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3685 2021-02-20 03:52:57

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

misko_2083, I think you underestimate the powers of human perception.
One might be able to temporarily fool people watching stuff on their mobile devices, or deliberately create lo-res video to avoid detection, but I have not yet seen a deepfake video that looks convincing under scrutiny.
Same with celebrity porn I presume - it will always require some suspension of disbelief from its viewers.

This shit's developing, yes, but probably never to the point that it becomes 100% undetectable. As it is now, it isn't even 100% undetectable to the human eye.

But it doesn't take much (technology) to use all sorts of fakes to discredit politicians etc. since these rely on audio much more than video.
And in any case, skilled forgery isn't exactly a new problem.

In the end we have the bloated entertainment industry to thank for deepfake (and not the military or secret agencies) - there's much more budget for creating the illusion than there is for detecting it.


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3686 2021-02-20 07:32:01

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 509
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

misko_2083 wrote:

Btw it's often on Facebook, usually some random page posts deepfake celebrity videos
promissing a reward in exchange for personal data, bank account number, money... the usual stuff.

I don't touch Facebook. Never have.

Here is an interesting read on Facebook's antics:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/net … ter-bubble

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Offline

#3687 2021-02-21 00:39:28

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

misko_2083, I think you underestimate the powers of human perception.

Perception depends on the type of reality being projected to the human minds.
We could do an experiment, post a high quality emotional deepfake video with the clickbait title and see how people respond.
Most people's reactions would be based on the emotional content of the video.
Part of the brain that manages the perception is overided with the emotions trigger.

This is why demagoguery is so popular with the politicians.
We would be projeting the new reality into their minds.
That is what the media does.
"We are the greatest nation/football club" is a very popular projection.
Something like that would attract people's attention.
It is how TV commercials (cough, economic propaganda broadcast) work. :-)

However, a negative context would add more attention and more intensive emotianal response and more views.
Attention! This is clickbait on steroids!
Let's say Trump calls for a revolution.
Can you predict the war in the comments?
Not everyone is triggered by the same context.
For some Trump is the devil, some see a saviour, some a fool, some a prophet, some just don't care.
Each human mind projects a different reality.
For some it's precisly they want, expect to hear.
You expect it to be fake of course.
Now you are completely stumped finding out in NewYork Times it is indeed real.
Well, gotya! Your mind projected the context in which the video is fake! :-D

I think that continuity also matters, it's different when a deepfake is inserted between the real videos.
The mind stays in that state expecting to see a real one.
Also a real one between the deepfakes is expected to be fake.

If they are all mixed up how would you know what's real?
Some are already very convincing.
You are right. Skilled forgery isn't exactly a new problem.
It's an old problem.
Now forgery does not rely much on skills. AI does most of the work.


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3688 2021-02-21 06:00:45

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ Could you share some links to "convincing" deepfakes?
I don't much get these otherwise; there was a few others pointed out to me, and they were all in the "Wow, technology can do this now" category - but still recognizably artificial.
I also don't use youtube's web interface when I can avoid it, and certainly not with Autoplay set to ON. That's the sort of pestilence that creates Q-Anon and online addicts that then go and spam forum threads with all the great stuff they found on YT, again.
_________________________________

In other news:

There's been a shooting just outside my house last night!!!
That's crazy. I live in a quiet neighbourhood in a quiet country with sufficiently strict gun laws. And there's no street violence to speak of in this neighbourhood.
It started with a loud bang - a car crash. Then shouting. At first I thought it was a classic case of road rage, then I saw one guy pull a gun and shout things like "get down on your knees!", and the other begging for his life. Why didn't he just run away? There was plenty of cars and houses to hide behind. Loved his car too much I guess...
Later it felt like they knew each other and had a more emotional argument, they even hugged or wrestled at some point. That's when the 3rd shot fell.
I shouted at them to stop it and that the police are coming, to no avail (they didn't even seem to notice me).
What struck me most was the feeling of helplessness - I could've gone out (I was on my balkonee the whole time) and shout at them from a closer distance, but not close enough to not endanger myself.
When the police came the other guy ran away and the guy with the gun pretended to be the victim who was shot at.
I had a prime seat, I really hope they're going to ask me more questions at some point.


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3689 2021-02-21 14:13:32

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Focus on the sound is not so important in detection of deepfake.
Deepfake can include synthesized sound.
If you are interested in the concept:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VQgYPv8tb6A
These are some advanced neural networks.

P.S. What is a safe distance from two angy people wrestling over a gun?
You witnessed a crazy scene.

Last edited by misko_2083 (2021-02-21 14:52:23)


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3690 2021-02-21 14:29:42

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 816

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:

What struck me most was the feeling of helplessness

Yes, I've noticed over the years, you seem to have a need to fix people, correct/prevent others from "being bad". Just look at your sig.

Just saying... since you brought it up. Not looking to start anything. Makes me ponder the question of getting involved in the affairs of others for the sake of "right vs wrong".

but not close enough to not endanger myself.

Double negative aside (see? now you have me doing it :-) ) Could you not have been shot on your balcony?

I had a prime seat, I really hope they're going to ask me more questions at some point.

Because you can set the record straight (make it right)?

8bit

edit: Reminds about the story of a guy who tried to break up a fight. The combatants were friends that now had a common enemy, who got his "clock cleaned".

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-02-21 15:30:58)

Offline

#3691 2021-02-22 08:49:57

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

eight.bit.al wrote:

Yes, I've noticed over the years, you seem to have a need to fix people, correct/prevent others from "being bad". Just look at your sig.

Um.
The main purpose of this forum is to help people fix their problems - not fix people.
And how do I "correct/prevent others from "being bad"" by asking them to use CODE tags?
But yes, I say my opinion when I deem it necessary, often forsaking politeness or the common "shut up and don't get involved" dogma. Both in here and outside IRL.
Too much shit is happening in this world because people think they can get away with it. Small things, where nobody "bothers" to raise their voice in dissent.

Makes me ponder the question of getting involved in the affairs of others for the sake of "right vs wrong".

I've always done that when I was reasonably sure about it - which is less and less often over time.
But seeing one person shooting another, unarmed, from a short distance is such a case.
Yes, I do get involved. I find the alternative morally untenable.

Could you not have been shot on your balcony?

The shooter couldn't hit the other person from a 10m distance (shooting blanks, or deliberately missing? he was certainly aiming at him), I was at a 90 degrees angle ~80m away, and my balcony's railing is solid concrete. I'd have had plenty of time to duck.
Anyhow, they didn't even seem to notice me. The whole situation was bizarre.

Because you can set the record straight (make it right)?

Actually, yes. As soon as the police arrived, the shooter pretended to have been shot and adopted an overall whiny victim attitude, very different from hid threatening behaviour before that - while the other guy ran away.
I saw very much of the altercation, much more than the police saw.

Reminds about the story of a guy who tried to break up a fight. The combatants were friends that now had a common enemy, who got his "clock cleaned".

I did consider that - at times it did seem like they knew each other - but not saying anything seemed like the worse alternative. Anyway, I was shouting at them from a distance of ~80m.

However, I would not venture to morally assess the whole situation, or to "make it right", since I didn't understand what their argument was about.

Last edited by ohnonot (2021-02-22 09:59:27)


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3692 2021-02-22 17:23:58

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Although hard to aim bullet it's still deadly at 400m in the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34
Imagine how far it goes when shot at 45° angle.
The bullet can ricochet of the wall behind you or from anything else.
May not be deadly, it could still hurt you at some long distance.
https://i.imgur.com/RG47SyS.png
And the people think they are safe if they stand behind the police tape.

Last edited by misko_2083 (2021-02-22 17:26:51)


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3693 2021-02-23 13:33:26

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 816

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

ohnonot wrote:
eight.bit.al wrote:

Yes, I've noticed over the years, you seem to have a need to fix people, correct/prevent others from "being bad". Just look at your sig.

Um.

Being socially naive, as I was raised by badgers, I'm intrigued by this one word paragraph.

The main purpose of this forum is to help people fix their problems - not fix people.

But we were talking about your actions IRL.

And how do I "correct/prevent others from "being bad"" by asking them to use CODE tags?

How is it not?

Could you not have been shot on your balcony?

The shooter couldn't hit the other person from a 10m distance (shooting blanks, or deliberately missing? he was certainly aiming at him), I was at a 90 degrees angle ~80m away, and my balcony's railing is solid concrete. I'd have had plenty of time to duck.
Anyhow, they didn't even seem to notice me. The whole situation was bizarre.

It's a simple yes/no type question. Yes you could have been shot; things more improbable have happened. You placed your health, even life in jeopardy to defend social order.

Because you can set the record straight (make it right)?

Actually, yes. As soon as the police arrived, the shooter pretended to have been shot and adopted an overall whiny victim attitude, very different from hid threatening behaviour before that - while the other guy ran away.
I saw very much of the altercation, much more than the police saw.
...
However, I would not venture to morally assess the whole situation, or to "make it right", since I didn't understand what their argument was about.

Since make it right is in quotes, I'll take it as quoting me; it isn't the situation I was suggesting to make right, but rather the narrative of what happened.

All that said, the line:

What struck me most was the feeling of helplessness

Stronger than any other emotion was the inability to alleviate the situation, to render help (to the shooting target? to the bashed vehicles? to the breach in social order? to the ...?)

In my own experience, I've had you assume there were problems that didn't exist just so you could offer fixes for them. But enough of this, in this space. if you want to continue this conversation, please PM me.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-02-23 13:56:35)

Offline

#3694 2021-02-23 15:59:03

misko_2083
Member
Registered: 2016-05-24
Posts: 416

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^Awww, I was getting ready for the show.
Away with our explosives, then!


Што ни оштровиди ум сагледати не може - љубав превазилази.

Offline

#3695 2021-02-23 17:48:47

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 816

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

^ Popcorn is ready, but no show. smile

8bit

Offline

#3696 2021-02-24 06:23:11

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

IDK, 8bit Al, I seem to have hit a nerve with you, with this story.
I said what I think in #3691, you said yours, further discussion seems useless. Let's just agree to disagree.


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3697 2021-02-24 12:51:46

eight.bit.al
Member
From: Prison
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 816

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Sorry ohnonot.  No nerve was struck, had no issues with the story.  Commented on your need to fix people's behavior. Yes, let's agree to disagree.

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al (2021-02-24 13:25:30)

Offline

#3698 2021-02-25 20:54:02

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2015-09-29
Posts: 5,342
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

@all, I would like to ask your opinion about something I saw the other day:
https://dt.iki.fi/stuff/forums/IMG_20210223_163702.jpg
I have lived around here for many years and I'm sure it's fairly new.
I left the street lamp in the picture to show that this thing is not a street lamp, and also how tall it is.
What could it be?


Please use CODE tags for code.
Search youtube without a browser: repo | thread
BL quote proposals to this thread please.
my repos / my repos

Offline

#3699 2021-02-25 21:48:16

Martin
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2015-10-01
Posts: 509
Website

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Hmmm, interesting. I have no idea but let's start by listing some observations.

* The pole it sits on is kind of slender compared to the street lamp so whatever is up there is not heavy.
* Whatever is in there don't seem to need much cooling (unless there is water coming up the pole) so either not consuming much power or being insanely efficient.
* Enclosure material would be nice to know but the photo does not help me.
* Any sounds?
* Any cameras looking at it or on the place from which you observed it?
* Any research facilities in this area?

Let's name it for fun: It's an UPO, an Unidentified Perching Object.
:-)

/Martin


"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Offline

#3700 2021-02-25 23:38:14

phuturism
Member
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2016-07-15
Posts: 160

Re: Completely Off Topic Chat

Some sort of signal relay?  wifi?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB